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Loadout: Rattlesnake: The Best level 4 Mission Ship?


Rattlesnake: The Best level 4 Mission Ship?


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Ship fitting - Built on March 29, 2013

Rattlesnake, 458,998,000 ISK
+ 56 4 -
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Ionic Field Projector I
Ammo
Cargo
Drones
Build Views Tagged as
Retribution 1.0
15th February 2013
92,591 Active tank, Cheap, Drone boat, Long range, Missile Boat, PvE, Shield tank, Short range, Sniper, Solo
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[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake: The Best level 4 Mission Ship?]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Ionic Field Projector I


You need to upgrade your Flash Player
Version 3 changed on Apr 4, 2013
[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake: The Best level 4 Mission Ship?]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Ionic Field Projector I


Version 2 changed on Mar 29, 2013
[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake: The Best level 4 Mission Ship?]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Ionic Field Projector I


Version 1 changed on Mar 29, 2013
[Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake: The Best level 4 Mission Ship?]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Pith B-Type Large Shield Booster
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Cruise Missile Launcher II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Ionic Field Projector I


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Title Author Date Ratings
Stats assume all skills at V. Use EVEHQ for detailed combat simulations.

This feature is currently in Beta.


Targeting Maximum targets 7
Maximum targeting range 93750 m
Scan resolution 125 mm
Sensor strength 30 0 0 0
Size/Movement Max velocity 117.5
Inertia modifier 0.0864
Signature radius 450 m
Cargo capacity 665 m3
Systems Capacitor capacity 6687.5 GJ
Capacitor recharge time 14 minutes 25 seconds
Powergrid 6984.8 / 12500 MW
CPU 892 / 887.5 tf
Shields Shield capacity 15937.5
Shield recharge time 31 minutes 15 seconds
Shield resistances 0% 50% 73% 64%
Armor Armor hit points 11175
Armor resistances 50% 10% 25% 45%
Structure Structure hit points 12450
Structure resistances 0% 0% 0% 0%
Drones Drone capacity 175 m3
Drone bandwidth 50 Mbit/sec
Drone control range 0 m
How to fund this loadout with PLEX:

Current estimated total value, ISK: 790,653,686
Sell this many PLEX* to fund: 2
Convert this many ETC to PLEX: 1 Purchase ETC here

*You may only sell PLEX for ISK via the CCP Secure Transfer Method
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I would like to preface this with i see a lot of Loadouts of Machs and Nightmares, which are generally considered the kings of level 4s, however, I don't think they are as good as Rattlesnakes. Or at least, Rattlesnakes are equal with far cheaper loadouts

I'll explain why i believe this and hopefully win some people over. I generally feel the application of damage is underrated, this is what the Rattler does from any range. Plus is sports a hefty tank.


Finally, there are other Rattler loudouts on this site, too many of them are attempting to boost missile damage Drones > missiles. Others increase the cost too much by using CN BSUs and other expensive mods. For all of this they gain marginal dps (some lose dps) and are vastly over tanking (If you have a MJD on you don't need 550+tank, you don't really need 3 omnis {tho this is the best use of an extra slot}, And if your not going to rock a MJD a 3rd or 4th hardener is going to tank like crazy).

These are the reasons i made this Loadout. I hope people will start to better respect the Rattler and providing a Solid loadout and information is the best way to do so.

Edit- and how the damage coding of this game works it seems.

------------------
Why the Rattlesnake works.
------------------

1. Any damage type you can do it (however you do lose dps for not using therm drones).
2. No range holes. Snipe and in close, 0k to 105k you are deadly.
3. Maximum damage range 5k-62k with gardes. (This is not falloff 50% or greater this is 98% or more applied damage). Furthermore, with other sentries you have a you have 10k-100k 98% damage application. And your missile damage is always doing the right damage type.
4. Fits a MJD or can go more tank (MJD are good, because of this builds extreme high damage at high range).
5. Not overly expensive (You could get a gist XL booster but we are not trying to break the bank. ATM Rattles are available under 470m and the total build will cost 600-800m)
------------------


------------------
The break down (By slots)
------------------
[Rattlesnake]

=
{Lows}

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

- 4 drone amps because one drones do most of your damage, Duh
- Two BCUs -more missile damage
+ Straight forward, don't use CN BCUs (unless you need the cpu, try Fed BCUs or t1 drone links) with max everything its like a max extra 12 or 14 dps.

=
{Mids}
Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Large Micro Jump Drive
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

- Pith B-type is a great option (100m), there are better, better is not needed and for the money and performance its hard to beat. (100m is quite a bit, if your pinched for isk t2 can work. Follow later advice on increase tank a bit if you feel its needed).

+ Edit - I have change the loadout to a type A when i bought the B it was 100m its now ~150m might as well go for an Pith A at 190-200m if you have the money (worth it for its performance).

- 2 Specific hardeners (or w/e is best for that mission), you can switch out an omni tracking link and or the MJD for a 3rd or 4th hardener.

+ It shouldn't be needed on say AE bonus room or WC w/e high dps missions i might drop one omni TL as tanking is still important you can always warp off as soon as stuff is in range to start hurting you.. you don't want tot do this however. you want to be in Garde max range (unless the enemy is has a flat 12% more therm resist than another 40% exp vs 53% therm, just use a bouncer sent, etc.) So tanking is good for best dps

+ Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link x3 or x2. The bonus from the 3rd link is nice, but an omni t2 in the 3rd slot is also very effective. If your short on money 3x t2 omnis is viable and saves ~120m. Not only do these provide crazy range for your drones they also add great tracking (3x faction provide gardes with .0691 tracking and 57.5k optimal range).

- Micro Jump Drive - not needed, but easily the best range/movement option for a stationary boat (Sentry drones).


=

{Highs}

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II

- T2 lunchers are the way to go will address this later. But you want to use t1 or faction ammo.

- DLAs (28k drone control range thank you). +8k range more from the t2s (skill requirements only, cheap mod). With most skills 105k (108k possible but not worth the train time). (Probably the best option to downgrade to t1 if you need cpu).

=

{Rigs}

Large Ionic Field Projector I
Large Rigor Warhead Catalyst I
Large Rigor Warhead Catalyst I

- The ionic is pretty much needed, it increases the ~93k targeting range of the Rattle to an easy ~117k (at the cost of 10-5% shields, no big your not passive tanked).

- Large Rigor Warhead Catalyst I x2 is the best DPS option.
- Large Capacitor Control Circuit x2 is the best tanking and cap option.

Thanks to feedback and experimentation i switch my stance on these the rigors are defiantly worth using. Oddly enough its highly viable to do one of each. You lose a bit of cruiser and bc damage but gain a bit more tank, but realistically you have enough tank, your tank is fine, you don't need the CCCs.


=

Garde II x5
Warden II x5
Curator II x5
Bouncers II x5
Hornet II x5

- You can use Hobgoblins but don't, Hornets are better light drones for this ship - you are increasing all the stats of your drones a ton other than their speed. So if you need to take out sub 6k orbiting frigates, the speed from warriors or hornets will serve you better (they will pop fast). Overall you rarely even use anything but sents.

- Ogre's are an option, they can work in combination of mwd or when turtling into gate jump range and finishing off the last few BSs. However, in general if fitted with a MWD you going to run real fast in one direction pop out sents an repeat; sents cannot be beat. Generally you would use them with a torp and mwd loadout now (you need to be close to save them from aggro now)

=

--------------
Numbers:
--------------

+ Edit - All of the following is now the older build with CCCs and Pith B (i sold it for a profit of 40m rofl). Except for when mentioned.

Loadout build – Good tank 2 damage type tanked at 70/30

~
New setup
251/528 Defence w/ 97,268 HP
Cap lasts 3m 20s

~
Old setup
310/495 Defence w/ 97,250 HP
Cap lasts 4m
~

Dps (67k and closer) 993= 800 drone (.0675 tracking) + 193 missiles (t1 ammo)
DPS (farther than 67k) 893 = 700 drone + 193 missiles (t1 ammo)
Target range =  ~114k

Below is basic dps done to different sig sizes.


-
Ok just as a quick example; if i wanted more tank i can drop the omni 2 tracking link and have:


419/711 Defence w/ 126984 HP
Cap lasts 4m
Dps (59k and closer) 993= 800 drone (.059 tracking) + 193 missiles (t1 ammo)
DPS (farther than 59k) 893 = 700 drone + 193 missiles (t1 ammo)
Target range =  ~114k

-
Or  could just use cap boosters like everyone else (and way over tank it uselessly).

1292/1292 Defence w/ 126984 HP
Cap lasts Stable
Dps (59k and closer) 974= 800 drone (.059 tracking) + 174 missiles (t1 ammo)
DPS (farther than 59k) 874 = 700 drone + 174 missiles (t1 ammo)
Target range =  ~114k

Cap booster setup- just silly and pointless.


-
Max dps is 1070 (with furies and rigors you can actually apply this also, requires cap boosting tho or a lower tank)
=
----------------
Missile dps on targets:
----------------

T1 missiles:
DPS ------- Sig or greater
193 ------- 340
135 ------- 240
68  ------- 130
15  ------- 40

T2 Furies:
DPS ------- Sig or greater
216 ------- 340
98  ------- 240
48  ------- 130
10  ------- 40

=
Now with 2x t1 Rigors (which are the best option for increased missile damage)

T1 missiles (2x rigor):
DPS ------- Sig or greater
193 ------- 340
180 ------- 240
91  ------- 130
20  ------- 40

T2 Furies (2x rigor):
DPS ------- Sig or greater
270 ------- 340
132 ------- 240
65  ------- 130
13  ------- 40

Rigors and fury missiles (1082 is Fury, 1005 is t1; use above missile damage to determine benefit:


- Basically rigors allow for more dps when using Fury ammo and shooting 340 sig ships; past 400 sig rigors offer no benefit.
- The real improvement is on t1 missiles for BCs and cruisers, which are totally viable to use with rigors (Around ~40 increase to each) and t2 missiles with bcs.
- The lost of cap and tank is notable without CCCs.

+Verdict really not worth it - when used with a heavy cap booster this can improve dps.
++ Edit - changed my mind on this one. If you don't have the money for a pith A or B Shield booster then your best off with the CCCs but with either shield booster and rigors you get better results.

=


------------
Cons
------------

1. Your slow. You have the MJD to move 100k in a jump but you have to turtle to gates that are 40k away.
+ Dealing with this is not always awful. Say there is a gate 40k away and you have to fight a few BS etc. you can MJD up and on an angle, fight until CD is done the jump again right on top of the gate (like a triangle). It takes some practice but I usually get within 5k of the gate.

2. Drones are still dumb, all drone boats now require more attention then before ... watch those drone hps.. blahh (i have not lost one sent yet (at 50k even they tank well), all your heavies are be destroyed).

3. You sit still, this is easily the worst part of this boat.

4. Cannot kill and loot like machs, vindis, etc.

=
------------
Pros
------------
1. Cheap for its level of effectiveness (~700-800m total fit).

2. Versatile. Arguably the most flexible ship for L4s. Unlike nightmares (what type of damage are you going to do...) and Machs (Still great, multiple damage types, but you always have to be right on the target); the Rattler blows any type of ship up at any distance with little to no weakness or bad match-ups. With this comparable dps and generally superior tank and the MJD option can and does do everything but turrets (technically drones function as turrets for damage application).

3. More DPS, real dps. You will not find a nightmare that out preforms this, even with good equipment. Mach's with t1 ammo doesn't out dps this ships at any range with 100% drone uptime. Mach's with faction ammo equal the Rattler's dps under 25k with 100% drone uptime [which isn't happening].

+ Edit - there has been some rage about this mathematical FACT in this loadout thread. In the most ideal cases the Mach will do an some extra dps ie stationary targets with even 100m/s transferal it has less damage even with 100% drone uptime.

4. Sniping .. you don't take any damage and your tank is a easy fit (can even passive for no effort ratting)

5. Looks, whirligig ftw.

=

---------------
Ship comparison
---------------

A 970 - 1k dps Nightmare, if fighting the right rat types, pulls close to the same dps. But here is the thing, the Rattlers missiles and drones will be doing high damage as you pick the damage type (long time benefit of CNR).
Say you get 20% more damage on a nightmare (which you don't, your normally a bit under) what is that worth when the mob has 20% more resist and your at 60k 20k into falloff. Nms usually switch crystals losing, any dps advantage they had plus have to worry about higher resists and NMs still do not have the range of the rattler. Don't believe me, browse the builds on this site.

Now what about machs? Well in mission speed machs are pretty much king (versatile damage type too) very limited range tho 4-5k + 65k fall off at say 1030dps (with drones). But they have to be in range of each spawn each ship etc even at 35k they lose a ton of damage.  So as far as applied damage no solo mission runner does it as well as the Rattler.

Still machs move so fast, let you loot while missioning, get to gates, blitz , etc. I will not say that rattlers are better than machs in mission completion time , because they aren't, but your looking at 2-3bill loadouts vs 700-800m loadout.
Its noteworthy to mentioning Republic ammo for machs it provides a sizable dps increase making competitive with the rattler.

Here is the mach t1 ammo 4 faction gyro, 3x tracking enchancers (left most line/plot that fall down) vs the Rattler Fury, guard, rigors (flatter looking lines, for frigate its the one that is more right. Note no medium or light drone are represented.)


Following is the same but with Curators instead (i know but hey em is useful at times), also this is a good representation of how the farther reaching drones behave.


=

Quick edit -
Because a few people have stated why not go with rigors (as suggested possible) Ill address this here also.
Edit - i listened ... eventually, hehe.

But here is a rigor build that also tanks far to well its basically how retarded you can be with the rattler (ok im sure you could get more retarded, but this is a good place to start)




-
I hope this was informative. I will be following this loadout and any suggestions.

Comments

  • March 29, 2013, 01:49:00 am

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Reserved
  • March 29, 2013, 02:35:50 am

    Lieutenant Commander
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    dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dasrufken forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Looks like a proper lvl 4 fit rattlesnake.

    +1
  • March 29, 2013, 02:43:41 am

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    This loadout has been updated
  • March 29, 2013, 03:10:57 am

    Crewman
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    Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Jasper Molgvits forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    holy mother of stats.
    +1 for actually putting some effort into a post.
  • March 29, 2013, 03:25:43 am

    Crewman Novice
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    Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will.

    Nice description. Do you want to graduate in rattlesnakeology?
    Fit is very nice. But i 'd fit a Remote Armor Repairer that 'll make your drones laugh at damage spikes and you don't have to circle drones as much. That's only for the lazy ones.
  • March 29, 2013, 04:42:12 am

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Nice description. Do you want to graduate in rattlesnakeology?
    Fit is very nice. But i 'd fit a Remote Armor Repairer that 'll make your drones laugh at damage spikes and you don't have to circle drones as much. That's only for the lazy ones.
    I cannot seem to load ammo or drones. Try a heavy or medium armor maint drones :) Plenty of room in that 400 drone bay.
    You really do not want to decrease drone control range. You move slow so 105k for 85-90% damage is crazy good, for the heavy tanked loadouts .. yeah its viable. honestly i rarely have to repair, i just blow stuff up , if there are alot of bs/bc w/ missiles they might hurt a drone but you can just /scoop and release and the missiles in the air now will miss and they normally drop aggro from that drone. (they tank at snipe ranges pretty well anyway, 1 frigate doesn't have the dps to destroy their shield normally).

    A remote arm probably would work on the tankier builds where drone aggro might be an issue.
    Thanks for you reply and idea
  • March 29, 2013, 07:56:32 am

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    Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Holy sheeeet! Did u submit this description as your doctoral dissertation at MIT??
  • March 29, 2013, 11:30:27 am

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    sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    You don't seem to have considered the arty Mach in your thesis, or the cheaper arty/MJD maelstrom.

    Regardless of that this fit looks good. +1
  • March 29, 2013, 01:31:11 pm

    Lieutenant Commander
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    Good fit- but I disagree with the title :)

    I would also switch out the CCC rigs for something else like rigors as said in your description. You should be more than adequate on cap on a MJD fit.
  • March 29, 2013, 01:31:34 pm

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    You don't seem to have considered the arty Mach in your thesis, or the cheaper arty/MJD maelstrom.

    Regardless of that this fit looks good. +1
    Ill take a look at them, never herd people speak of them as the best ships for lvl4s. Thank you.
  • March 29, 2013, 04:42:31 pm

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    +1 The fit is good and the write up is excellent!

    Best ship for L4s? Maybe if you factor in the cost of the hull otherwise I think a Tach NM or 1400 Mach will do better but I could be wrong. You're bang on about damage types tho, once you go up against something that resists EM the NM slows down.

    If I flew drone ships this is what I'd fly.
  • March 29, 2013, 06:20:42 pm

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    +1 for considering damage application and not just paper DPS.
  • March 29, 2013, 07:22:36 pm

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    I still like the Navy Raven- same DPS at 1k as 100k- can select damage type, and can get over 1k DPS at all those ranges (And I have flown every single faction battleship, HAC, T3 cruiser with max skills)
  • March 29, 2013, 09:11:05 pm

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    All of that and neglecting the fact that your missiles will do crap and the Nightmare is, in fact, the better option.

    But +1 for holyshitdescription and a good Rattler.

    Edit: Also, Hellgate, and I say this with all the love in the world:

    G
    T
    F
    O
  • March 29, 2013, 10:00:12 pm

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    Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Shin_Getter might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    There is Navy Domi and Navy Raven to look at

    Navy Domi: If you refit armor or shield according to mission, you have many options
    Shield:
    + >1200 dps at 50km with somewhat selectable damage applied in full to small craft approaching you
    -Weaker tank means tailoring tank to specific missions, adding slots if needed, lower drone ranges, lose 100dp for drone range mod.
    Armor:
    +Possible dual prop, and many options for spare mids
    -"only" ~1000 dps at 50 with dual prop


    Raven Navy Issue:
    Cruise Missiles:
    +Perfect Damage Selection. Extreme Range. Stacking Rigors + TP ensures Good Application to everything.  Immunity to TD.  Move and fire comfortably.  FoF for extreme lazy mode.
    -Only ~800 base missile DPS, though a set of 3xsentries and hardwires help a lot.  Still inferior dps against frigate type targets (eg. buzz kill) compared to manually piloted gunboats.

    *Due to sheer range this ship can do blitz like kite-snipe damsel and do a 150km warpin grab and run. With prop and kite, tank is almost unnecessary for a lot of missions.

    ----
    Really, the best mission boat depends on what you are doing.  Blitzers that rely on LP tends to like machs or tengu that is agile over dps as they don't shoot everything nor choose shooting heavy missions.  Rat farmers that rely on rat bounties, salvage and drops are better off with with dps marauders, and/or something that runs salvage drones.
  • March 30, 2013, 06:35:13 am

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    +1 The fit is good and the write up is excellent!

    Best ship for L4s? Maybe if you factor in the cost of the hull otherwise I think a Tach NM or 1400 Mach will do better but I could be wrong. You're bang on about damage types tho, once you go up against something that resists EM the NM slows down.

    If I flew drone ships this is what I'd fly.

    1400 mach is something ill look at (no they really are not close, most get close with sents ie you cannot move or ur using ogres which now rats eat...). 800s still are crazy and due to their ability to move and fight i did state are really still the best mission runner.

    Look at the tach NM builds, they don't do better damage and they have no weapon damage type selection (Nightmares have like an ~24k-42k window where they do better damage to small targets if they are weak to the one type of damage lazors can do; so 90% of the time rattlers are doing better damage). Maybe ill take a look into running a few dps sims with NM.
    {Edit- you know that scarlet mission, "Dread Pirate Scarlet", where if you pop her early you get an implant drop... I always get it its a two round drone volley on a BC  (rarely 3)}


    Yes the CNR does great damage to larger ships, the Rattler out preforms on annoying smaller than a BC with the tank and because the majority of its damage has no travel time, thus the rattler its far more effective at sniping small junk (You miss often TPing out to 80k).
    Ill add this to the post later with the 1400 mach info, but drones don't get jammed etc (well rats don't jam them), just another pro for the Ship; they will finish off a battleship or w/e while your jammed (Still being stationary sucks).

    All of that and neglecting the fact that your missiles will do crap and the Nightmare is, in fact, the better option.
    ...

    There are dps charts, they have 340 sig sizes and below and the missiles are doing damage, (just not on the smaller targets, which you most often single volley with the drones anyway). So the ships you need more dps on (BS and BCs) your missiles do damage (t2 don't , but its like 77 dps extra, and with rigors they do so its very viable).. Even BCs normally pop in 2-3 drone volleys (ie there is no point to even launch missiles at them). I normally start missiles on a BS and alternate drones so when the missiles start landing on BS i have already poped a smaller ship and switch drones over for the combined dps [break the tank faster] then repeat.

    There is Navy Domi and Navy Raven to look at

    Navy Domi: If you refit armor or shield according to mission, you have many options
    Shield:
    + >1200 dps at 50km with somewhat selectable damage applied in full to small craft approaching you
    -Weaker tank means tailoring tank to specific missions, adding slots if needed, lower drone ranges, lose 100dp for drone range mod.
    Armor:
    +Possible dual prop, and many options for spare mids
    -"only" ~1000 dps at 50 with dual prop


    Raven Navy Issue:
    Cruise Missiles:
    +Perfect Damage Selection. Extreme Range. Stacking Rigors + TP ensures Good Application to everything.  Immunity to TD.  Move and fire comfortably.  FoF for extreme lazy mode.
    -Only ~800 base missile DPS, though a set of 3xsentries and hardwires help a lot.  Still inferior dps against frigate type targets (eg. buzz kill) compared to manually piloted gunboats.

    *Due to sheer range this ship can do blitz like kite-snipe damsel and do a 150km warpin grab and run. With prop and kite, tank is almost unnecessary for a lot of missions.

    ----
    Really, the best mission boat depends on what you are doing.  Blitzers that rely on LP tends to like machs or tengu that is agile over dps as they don't shoot everything nor choose shooting heavy missions.  Rat farmers that rely on rat bounties, salvage and drops are better off with with dps marauders, and/or something that runs salvage drones.

    The DNI is the ship i was gonna post about in an earlier reply (but im stuck working for 5 days 12hs). The short version of this i have a DNI build.
    Wanna know the sad truth .. it has better damage application to small targets ... the BEST damage application to small targets its kinda dumb how well it pops small targets. Its maximum dps is challenges the 800 mach (Oh a hail mach with drones that fly to the target wins, but that is not very realistic and it has to be exp weakness). The DNI does about 50 less drone dps and a ton more turret dps that insta applies and hit small stuff perfectly, with the weakness of a weaker tank (one less mid) and a larger % of damage being stuck to hybrid damage type.  (It actually costs more; i did not use CN BCUs on this rattler because they cost a crazy amount but do provide a bump in dps [people its not worth it at this dps stuff doesn't last long], however the DNI needs faction damage mods and a few of them increasing the cost [i come out around 800-850m a non issue really] But a DNI is a better option if you don't have Cal and missile skills. More on this else where :) Still your talking 105k range vs a 54k or 57k.
    The drone range mod move you to ~80k range i believe but now your closer to rattler dps without the tank worse damage typing but vastly superior crushing of small ships - defiantly the way to go for a DNI (At least that is what my DNI loadout does).

    Addressed the CNR above(not saying its bad).

    Blitzing your right if your ina  pirate 0.0 hub doing l4s you might as well mach/tengu (tengu if hostiles are an option ).

    Thanks everyone for the feedback, you really have been wonderful:
    I will address NM damage maybe even toss in a resist template to reference WHY it matters (IE why CNRs are so good despite flight time and lower dps, and even why MACHs are so good + the option of Hail /speed /cheater). And soon enough post my DNI.
  • March 30, 2013, 07:05:48 am

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    {Edit- you know that scarlet mission, "Dread Pirate Scarlet", where if you pop her early you get an implant drop... I always get it its a two round drone volley on a BC  (rarely 3)}

    I always get it too, in my Maelstrom with 1400s, that one day will look like this. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/64700-Maelstrom-Leaper.html NB: I'm too poor to afford the faction gyros and not skilled enough for the T2 1400s yet, but I still always pop her.

    Not saying that the 1400 Mael is better than this fit, more that this metric (getting an implant from Scarlet) isn't really a good one. Or in other words if you don't get that drop you are doing it wrong.
  • March 30, 2013, 10:26:48 am

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    fishing13 is working their way up. fishing13 is working their way up. fishing13 is working their way up.

    I still like the Navy Raven- same DPS at 1k as 100k- can select damage type, and can get over 1k DPS at all those ranges (And I have flown every single faction battleship, HAC, T3 cruiser with max skills)


    Any chance you could post your Navy Raven build?
  • March 30, 2013, 11:06:26 am

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    Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    I still like the Navy Raven- same DPS at 1k as 100k- can select damage type, and can get over 1k DPS at all those ranges (And I have flown every single faction battleship, HAC, T3 cruiser with max skills)


    Any chance you could post your Navy Raven build?

    Already up- search CNR fits, it's the highest rated one that's current.
  • March 30, 2013, 12:54:09 pm

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    {Edit- you know that scarlet mission, "Dread Pirate Scarlet", where if you pop her early you get an implant drop... I always get it its a two round drone volley on a BC  (rarely 3)}

    I always get it too, in my Maelstrom with 1400s, that one day will look like this. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/64700-Maelstrom-Leaper.html NB: I'm too poor to afford the faction gyros and not skilled enough for the T2 1400s yet, but I still always pop her.

    Not saying that the 1400 Mael is better than this fit, more that this metric (getting an implant from Scarlet) isn't really a good one. Or in other words if you don't get that drop you are doing it wrong.
    Oh i agree i was just pointing out that drones do have sniping fast volley burst potential similar to NMs. Additionally, that missiles simply do not (ie blow up small stuff fast). IE travel time, now for a Rattler's maximum dps you have travel time of your missiles but  that is really only needed on BS (some BCs its effective with) and well you have time for travel time.
  • March 30, 2013, 11:39:46 pm

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    ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    You definitely won me over. +1. Gotta check my old PvE phoon and update it with MJD as the fits were very similar.
  • March 31, 2013, 06:44:24 am

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    This loadout has been updated
  • April 01, 2013, 02:19:31 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    Remarkable post, nice RS fit, but personally i think thats where it stops ^.^

    1. AI chews thru drones like they're nothing these days. Somewhere during mission, you probably have to bring the tanker in -> switch aggro -> launch a different one -> repeat. Thats quite the dps loss if done constantly. The charts do not reflect that. Non drone fits do not suffer this. Plus i can see that fit getting in tight situations, like angels bonus room, where a ton of crap spawns right on you. Sentries will have no effectiveness and now you're sustaining like 1600 1800 dps until you start cleaning house. Or maybe just micro jump to get some breathing room, but still not sure how that would pan out.

    2. Projectiles are ment to fight in falloff, not optimal. So even if optimal + falloff = 60km, thats a 60km mark to do a 50% hit rate, on anything, cuz they don't need rigors for a full blast on something with no transversal. The results in the game itself are superb, in EFT dps charts, not so much.

    3. you forgot one ship in the calcs. Vargur. They're just...better. How dps is put down thru 4 large cannons with 100% extra damage, nearly the tracking of a medium cannon (will shoot frigs at 9 / 10km), and all the optimal + falloff, is just mind numbing. It will shoot out of falloff like its still in effective range. But no chart will show that either.

    Other than that, great fit, fine RS, but i wouldn't recommend dropping projectiles (or the likes of a NM) for anything else. And if so, never call it "best" :P

    P.S.: Both Hail and Barrage eat away at your tracking. Barrage is ok since its mostly made for sniping with its extra range, Hail is borderline useless because it takes away your range and your tracking, leaving you with nothing, unless you're aiming at the nearby planet, its not something you want to use often.
  • April 01, 2013, 02:32:45 am

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    1. AI chews thru drones like they're nothing these days. Somewhere during mission, you probably have to bring the tanker in -> switch aggro -> launch a different one -> repeat. Thats quite the dps loss if done constantly. The charts do not reflect that. Non drone fits do not suffer this. Plus i can see that fit getting in tight situations, like angels bonus room, where a ton of crap spawns right on you. Sentries will have no effectiveness and now you're sustaining like 1600 1800 dps until you start cleaning house.

    This is a sniping rattle fit, the ranges where this ship operates very few rats can reach with their turrets/missiles (effectively). And bringing in a 2nd tanker, wtf?? You just scoop the sentries and put them back out, 2 second job. As for the angel bonus room, everything is like 50-60km+ from you when you land, and there is also this thing called MJD which lets this rattle reposition itself to a more suitable sniping spot (if the need arrises) and rain down the hurt.
  • April 01, 2013, 02:39:25 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.


    This is a sniping rattle fit, the ranges where this ship operates very few rats can reach with their turrets/missiles (effectively). And bringing in a 2nd tanker, wtf?? You just scoop the sentries and put them back out, 2 second job. As for the angel bonus room, everything is like 50-60km+ from you when you land, and there is also this thing called MJD which lets this rattle reposition itself to a more suitable sniping spot (if the need arrises) and rain down the hurt.

    Ya i later remembered his MJD. Still it all only looks like another viable way of doing things. Not exactly the best, or to be put next to machs and the sorts like the charts do.
  • April 01, 2013, 05:27:57 am

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    Remarkable post, nice RS fit, but personally i think thats where it stops ^.^

    1. AI chews thru drones like they're nothing these days. Somewhere during mission, you probably have to bring the tanker in -> switch aggro -> launch a different one -> repeat. Thats quite the dps loss if done constantly. The charts do not reflect that. Non drone fits do not suffer this. Plus i can see that fit getting in tight situations, like angels bonus room, where a ton of crap spawns right on you. Sentries will have no effectiveness and now you're sustaining like 1600 1800 dps until you start cleaning house. Or maybe just micro jump to get some breathing room, but still not sure how that would pan out.

    2. Projectiles are ment to fight in falloff, not optimal. So even if optimal + falloff = 60km, thats a 60km mark to do a 50% hit rate, on anything, cuz they don't need rigors for a full blast on something with no transversal. The results in the game itself are superb, in EFT dps charts, not so much.

    3. you forgot one ship in the calcs. Vargur. They're just...better. How dps is put down thru 4 large cannons with 100% extra damage, nearly the tracking of a medium cannon (will shoot frigs at 9 / 10km), and all the optimal + falloff, is just mind numbing. It will shoot out of falloff like its still in effective range. But no chart will show that either.

    Other than that, great fit, fine RS, but i wouldn't recommend dropping projectiles (or the likes of a NM) for anything else. And if so, never call it "best" :P

    P.S.: Both Hail and Barrage eat away at your tracking. Barrage is ok since its mostly made for sniping with its extra range, Hail is borderline useless because it takes away your range and your tracking, leaving you with nothing, unless you're aiming at the nearby planet, its not something you want to use often.

    Drones will get popped every now and then , if you aren't using sentries- by the time the enemy gets in range, you recall them, pop the MJD and bust them out again- the whole process takes like 6 seconds.

    Why are you commenting on projectiles? This is a missile boat- and missiles have their own advantages, some of which heavily outweigh projectiles- there is no optimal/falloff, just range- same damage at 1k as 120k, and you can completely customize your damage. The only real downside to missiles in missions is the flight time.
  • April 01, 2013, 06:08:16 am

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    Remarkable post, nice RS fit, but personally i think thats where it stops ^.^

    1. AI ... {addressed}
    2. Projectiles are ment to fight in falloff, not optimal. So even if optimal + falloff = 60km, thats a 60km mark to do a 50% hit rate, on anything, cuz they don't need rigors for a full blast on something with no transversal. The results in the game itself are superb, in EFT dps charts, not so much.

    This misunderstanding is why this build is so effective. Tracking doesn't help falloff misses.
    You state here its ok to fight in falloff .. i say no its not. Say your at a more realistic range for NMs of 40 + 37k with tachys and Navy multi (Faction ammo, which i have not used for any other build). A NM with dps of 1135 (with drones); @ 59k (1/2 a falloff) is now doing not 1135 damage but instead a MAX of 891 dps (and that is with medium drones who you admit cannot sit out there up on target 100% of time).

    You have to move so sent drones are not an option but lets say they were, you get no extra dps so w/e there (gardes don't reach that far and the others don't do more than mediums w/o mods and only 3 out). Here is the kicker you have a lower damage window close in with tachys, and the farther out you go the less damage you do you.

    More realistically the Nm doesn't factor much drone damage in (frigate killers)so you have 977 dps with Navy multis with a max dps build that is 732.75 dps @ 59k  vs a Rattlers 800 drone dps + 270 missile damage = 1070 dps @58k or if you want to go father out 105k @ 700 drone dps and 270 missile dps = 970dps. For nm you could do N. Gammas @ 58k for 750 dps (better off with x-rays at 61k with 814 dps), or attempt to go to 97k @570dps..
    Of course at 40km and under you get 977dps with the NM (but its always therm em damage.

    Ok this was a bit overkill maybe i should make a graph/table .. anyway its pretty clear that fighting in falloff is the quickest way to lose dps. Mach doesn't lose as much dps per K in falloff because they have so much falloff but its clear that it does fall.

    NOTE - the math behind this is the fact that as you get less accurate you get good damage modifiers less frequnetly on top of increased misses (your xx "WREAKS" the target for xx).


    Quote

    3. you forgot one ship in the calcs. Vargur. They're just...better. How dps is put down thru 4 large cannons with 100% extra damage, nearly the tracking of a medium cannon (will shoot frigs at 9 / 10km), and all the optimal + falloff, is just mind numbing. It will shoot out of falloff like its still in effective range. But no chart will show that either.

    No they don't. You cannot shoot in falloff like your in effective range. Falloff is absolute, tracking doesn't help you. PS Gardes have 0.674 .0691 tracking. That is pretty hard to beat.

    Quote
    ...
    P.S.: Both Hail and Barrage eat away at your tracking. Barrage is ok since its mostly made for sniping with its extra range, Hail is borderline useless because it takes away your range and your tracking, leaving you with nothing, unless you're aiming at the nearby planet, its not something you want to use often.

    Hail is superior inside of 25k vs all sigs (~= on frigates) (Stuck with explosive damage). Past 25k this rattler loadout has better damage than machs on BC sigs and larger (@most traversals and ranges the rattler out frigates both NM and Machs). This is reality.

    But you don't get to fly to gates and wreaks while fighting , i cannot stress enough why this makes a Mach better at lvl4s more(unless you plan on salvaging then well w/e).

    _Edit i believe he is addressing projectiles because i do. In a way he should drones are projectiles. What he misses is a 800-650 (depending on the sent) dps projectile with Crazy tracking Crazy range and backed up with 282-200 dps missile battery, selectable damage types and better all range dps all traversals. That is compared to the NM. As stated before under 25k an Hail Mach out dps's a Rattler as long as the trans is sub 100m/s
  • April 01, 2013, 05:45:26 pm

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    XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. XmonkTad forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Wonderful Post, and certainly addresses the question of "applied damage" vs "paper dps". And this goes above and beyond to compare to other faction BS.
    +1

    Perhaps this is beyond the scope of this fit, but since you already got your PhD in Rattlesnakeology, care to comment on Faction BS vs Marauders and if salvaging Lv 4s are worth it at all?
  • April 02, 2013, 01:41:05 pm

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Wonderful Post, and certainly addresses the question of "applied damage" vs "paper dps". And this goes above and beyond to compare to other faction BS.
    +1

    Perhaps this is beyond the scope of this fit, but since you already got your PhD in Rattlesnakeology, care to comment on Faction BS vs Marauders and if salvaging Lv 4s are worth it at all?

    Edit -

    In short this is a hard question to answer it largely depends on your skills/ship and more importantly how effective your LP conversion is.

    Most people make 3-5M per 6000lp (because they are lazy) thats 640 isk(most faction mods)-850 isk(Being picky) per LP. For others who choose more dangerous or rare LP stores they can get an easy 2000 isk per LP The difference is markable providing ~12m for 6000 Lp. So you have this when address is salvage worth it.

    So here is the deal if you can loot and salvage while fighting you lose no mission time .. other than maybe a bit , but then you lose more using a ship that is generally less effective. But ships Now say your in a mach or Nm w/e and you fly /tractor wreaks in and loot them losing almost no dps just looting them is a quick (FREE)10-15% extra isk (its not 20% its only 20% if your getting really bad LP rewards). Salvaging is a very different issue; even with noctis it takes maybe 20-50% of a missions time (an additional) to salvage most missions (if your in a mach your kills might be balled up slightly decreasing this time) But you have the flight back out there, the subspace, locking targeting, tractor time, etc. In otherwords (if you in one of these high dps pve ships) its almost never worth it to salvage afterwards. But i do it for fun sometimes because it breaks up the the pewpew and its like christmas you never know what your going to get.

    General tip is the bigger the better with looting and salvage. If a mission has a lot of small targets skip it if a lot of big ones ehh try it out. once in a while you find a 5-10m item and its kinda like las vegas.

    In short if you can salvage while fighting then thats a bonus (salvage is a small bonus), if you can loot while fighting do it .. thats a bonus (small but larger than salvaging and faster too)

    So its not an easy function to test, it would require thousands of rat kills and loot /salvage logs with types and price info to even actually know this answer FOR SURE/ as a matter of evidence.  But if you can fit a tractor to a ship do so , now two tractors vs  1 tract and 1 salv thats a hard question to answer.  Also if your 40k out and not in a marauder there is little reason to fit a tractor (your kiting and too far away).

    The reality that is observable is that when you can blitz, ie take out 3 ships total and complete a mission, nothing is faster, thus the TENGU and Mach being praised so much (and rightfully so). Now in a mission where you have to kill 100 some of ships to complete bring tractor if possible or an salvage as long as you don't hurt dps much (making again the mach a beast because you can just walk up and loot, NM do have tractors but they are normally out of range to use them [use them finishing off the last few ships or wide arc around to get range w/o being too close or worrying about tracking{which isn't a giant issue with NMs}])

    Now Say your in a Torp golem give yourself a real 10-15%% dps boost because you apply the correct damage type and (Your drone damage just doesn't hardly count anymore). But you can loot very well while firing and even salvage the big wreaks effectively. Its pretty hard to beat a 2-3b golem (Although you will be far more effective vs frigates with anything else and good cruiser damage application is great with 2 republic TPs, t1 ammo, and max missile skill). This build allows for a 4 tank and a MWD or AB which seems over tanked but remember with this ship you have to face tank 40km less than some BS preferable range (ie they gonna run from you across the map, have an AB at least). Being close in means the moment you pop a target you tractor and loot and then salvage.


    Golem loadout, which address Marauders - ie not worth the skilling, but great if you have the skilling.
    http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/65414-Golem-Can-t-Shake-this-Money-Maker.html
  • April 03, 2013, 05:34:57 pm

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    Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will. Grimmes has a powerful will.

    In my opinion the best way to salvage is to have the rattlesnake in the "next" mission and loot the one before with a Noctis.  That's very comfortable to do with a rattle. Maybe the most comfortable for doing it. You can build a Noctis alt in 9 hours but you know that i guess and it's definitely worth it.
  • April 03, 2013, 06:54:53 pm

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    In my opinion the best way to salvage is to have the rattlesnake in the "next" mission and loot the one before with a Noctis.  That's very comfortable to do with a rattle. Maybe the most comfortable for doing it. You can build a Noctis alt in 9 hours but you know that i guess and it's definitely worth it.

    Oh for sure, i just don't care to duo box, feels like cheating. Thank you for putting this here for anyone who wants to do this.
  • April 04, 2013, 01:29:00 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    Why are you commenting on projectiles? This is a missile boat-

    Because its a projectiles boat thats in his charts, for comparison. One thats simply better than any RS, if you flown the two, you already know this, even tho all the theorycraft disagrees.

    This misunderstanding is why this build is so effective. Tracking doesn't help falloff misses.
    You state here its ok to fight in falloff .. i say no its not.

    Tracking is how fast the AC can turn to follow the target and look to hit it. What sentence of mine led you to believe that i connected falloff with tracking? ok. Altho i could if i wanted i.e. even while still at half falloff (20 or 30km), a ship can gain transversal velocity, and thats where the high tracking comes in and nullifies it, still allowing the cannon to shoot accurately.

    And yes, yes they are, projectiles have ALWAYS been designed to fight within falloff, thats why the ships even get bonuses to it and not optimal range. So all you're left with is your chance to hit, that sits at 50% at optimal + falloff.

    What you say it is or isn't is rather irrelevant on this, its common knowledge.

    Ok this was a bit overkill maybe i should make a graph/table .. anyway its pretty clear that fighting in falloff is the quickest way to lose dps.

    (...)

    No they don't. You cannot shoot in falloff like your in effective range. Falloff is absolute, tracking doesn't help you. PS Gardes have 0.674 .0691 tracking. That is pretty hard to beat.

    yea mate, all this really says is that you never even used a projectile boat. But alright.

    Your first falloff gives you a 50% hit chance, which is quite good despite what any chart tells you, its where you WANT to be, this doesn't mean that you want to sit on the edge of it at all times, but it is a safe distance to shoot at. Your second falloff (opt + fo + fo) still gives you roughly a 6% chance to land a hit. At third falloff, ridiculous as it may sound, the projectile still retains a, i believe 0.5%, chance to hit the target.

    Blows your absolute theory right out of the water.


    Hail is superior inside of 25k vs all sigs (~= on frigates) (Stuck with explosive damage). Past 25k this rattler loadout has better damage than machs on BC sigs and larger (@most traversals and ranges the rattler out frigates both NM and Machs). This is reality.

    You don't cut away at 30% tracking of an already slow large cannon to gain 30 or 40 dps. Domination ammo does a wonderful job and keeps all the tracking properties intact.

    EFT says Hail is better, EVE Online disagrees. Just like EFT says that if i fit heavy drones on a ship i get tons more dps, even if reality means lights will do 10x a better job, and EFT is gonna say i just lost, what, 200 dps, dang. Numbers are one thing, the game is quite the other. EFT only gets you so far. Your entire post feels like nothing but theories, cuz all i see you do is theorize, and even then, half of them are wrong.

    P.S.: Again, this reply comes due to the fact that you want to put projectile ships in a chart, and affirm that a rattlesnake is arguably better....no, just...no.

    Perhaps this is beyond the scope of this fit, but since you already got your PhD in Rattlesnakeology, care to comment on Faction BS vs Marauders and if salvaging Lv 4s are worth it at all?

    Theres no question whether its worth it or not. I just finished a "Damsel In Distress" some 30 mns ago, the mission payout was roughly 11 million, and the cargohold had 39.9 million in it. So nearly 4x mission + bounties worth. Hence why marauders should be taken in consideration in any pve (L4) talks. Salvaging + looting and actually fighting all at once = value.
  • April 04, 2013, 02:16:42 am

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    Quote
    Your first falloff gives you a 50% hit chance, which is quite good despite what any chart tells you

    I don't know about good or bad but I know it is %50. So your dps is cut in half.

    Quote
    Salvaging + looting and actually fighting all at once = value

    Depends on the mission. I believe blitzing the missions for LP was the most profittable way to go if you have chosen a good corp to run them and a good ship to blitz them. If you are standing there and killing all the rats, you might as well go ahead and loot and salvage as well.
  • April 04, 2013, 03:14:06 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    Quote
    Your first falloff gives you a 50% hit chance, which is quite good despite what any chart tells you

    I don't know about good or bad but I know it is %50. So your dps is cut in half.

    Thats not how you calculate projectile DPS. Not all hits will be the same quality, so you can't just put down simple Division math. Again, its a lot more of EVE, a lot less of EFTing.

    Quote
    Salvaging + looting and actually fighting all at once = value

    Depends on the mission. I believe blitzing the missions for LP was the most profittable way to go if you have chosen a good corp to run them and a good ship to blitz them.

    Fact. But you can always recognize the stuff thats worthless (like rogue drones) and move along. Killing all ships assuming that bounties are involved, is always ISK. You got a point about doin with a corp too. Im mostly refering to solo stuff.

    Still value in it, like say, in Enemies Abound 5, where between waves, assuming that you clear them faster than the next one spawns, you can salvage and loot np, before the second one even comes, what would otherwise be downtime, you'd be doing nothing. The 5 parts provide 150/200 mil just in loot, sort of missions that always good to haul it all back home, and doesn't even take a second trip, or a noctis, to do it.
  • April 04, 2013, 10:04:26 am

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    This misunderstanding is why this build is so effective. Tracking doesn't help falloff misses.
    You state here its ok to fight in falloff .. i say no its not.

    Tracking is how fast the AC can turn to follow the target and look to hit it. What sentence of mine led you to believe that i connected falloff with tracking? ok. Altho i could if i wanted i.e. even while still at half falloff (20 or 30km), a ship can gain transversal velocity, and thats where the high tracking comes in and nullifies it, still allowing the cannon to shoot accurately.
    Because you somehow think that missing doesn't count or something? I figured the only reason could be you think something is helping you land hits in falloff.

    Read your own words:
    2. Projectiles are ment to fight in falloff, not optimal. So even if optimal + falloff = 60km, thats a 60km mark to do a 50% hit rate, on anything, cuz they don't need rigors for a full blast on something with no transversal. The results in the game itself are superb, in EFT dps charts, not so much.

    3. you forgot one ship in the calcs. Vargur. They're just...better. How dps is put down thru 4 large cannons with 100% extra damage, nearly the tracking of a medium cannon (will shoot frigs at 9 / 10km), and all the optimal + falloff, is just mind numbing. It will shoot out of falloff like its still in effective range. But no chart will show that either.

    You lose % of your dps to misses (This is a fact in theory and practice) [its also a well established fact at 1 falloff (50% miss rate you) actual lose more than 50% dps (you lose 60% dps), this is the CODING of the game; for the reason that miss rates also impact you ability to land AS hard hits ie you get more glances and less wreaks.]

    http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage

    Quote
    Your first falloff gives you a 50% hit chance, which is quite good despite what any chart tells you

    I don't know about good or bad but I know it is %50. So your dps is cut in half.

    Thats not how you calculate projectile DPS. Not all hits will be the same quality, so you can't just put down simple Division math. Again, its a lot more of EVE, a lot less of EFTing.

    This is reality in practice as well. Its math, call it simulated physics or applied mathematics if you will, but that link above shows you that is what happens on paper as well as in the game.

    Quote
    And yes, yes they are, projectiles have ALWAYS been designed to fight within falloff, that is why the ships even get bonuses to it and not optimal range.

    I said its not ok to fight in falloff in a reply to your reply, because doing so is a loss of dps that you seem to wholly discount. You said this, "It will shoot out of falloff like its still in effective range". No ship can shoot in falloff without penalty. Furthermore, tracking is an issue under 5k machs. The sweet spot for mach is ~20k (which means you lose dps). My point wasn't to say always be in optimal range or don't shoot, my point was that if your not in optimal range your loosing max dps.
    Do A/cs (projectiles) have shoot in falloff, yes why? Because that is how they were made and this ships have those bonuses with that in mind.

    A example of why this bonus is good.
    With a Mach and EMP (@ 1000dps) which has 10% per skill lvl optimal range if you have 4.2k O.range (46k falloff) that is 6.3k O.range which at 8k range will be an ok dps boost, but at 25k it hardly helps (1% dps difference). But because projectile have so much Falloff range or more accurately because their O.range is so short, when you are in falloff range your far better off with bonuses to it.
    For the same ship when you have 4.2k O.range at 25k without the falloff bonus (46k) your doing just under 77% damage or 770 dps instead of 1000.

    With a O.range bonus of 10% per skill the damage at 25k would be just under 80% damage or 800 dps vs 1000
    Now, with the actual Falloff bonus of 10% per level (69k) at 25k you do 85% damage or 850 dps.

    This is not avoidable its part of the games coding. FYI - Once you are in falloff range 1k of O.range = 2k of falloff in dps terms (so if a mod provides you with say 20 % falloff or 20% O.range act according to which provides the greater of the 1:2 ratio).

    Quote
    No they don't. You cannot shoot in falloff like your in effective range. Falloff is absolute, tracking doesn't help you. PS Gardes have 0.674 .0691 tracking. That is pretty hard to beat.

    yea mate, all this really says is that you never even used a projectile boat. But alright.

    Your first falloff gives you a 50% hit chance, which is quite good despite what any chart tells you, its where you WANT to be, this doesn't mean that you want to sit on the edge of it at all times, but it is a safe distance to shoot at. Your second falloff (opt + fo + fo) still gives you roughly a 6% chance to land a hit. At third falloff, ridiculous as it may sound, the projectile still retains a, i believe 0.5%, chance to hit the target.

    Blows your absolute theory right out of the water.

    one falloff or 50% miss rate is 60% less damage thats where you "WANT to be"?

    Not factoring tracking or sig, on a well equipped mach, with 920 turret dps, you think that 368 dps @ 74k, 645 dps @ 45k, 780 dps @ 25k, and 850 dps @15k is good that its ok losing this dps is fine; I say its not.

    This is not about what is viable (its better to fire at this range than not, its better than nothing), but this is looking at min/maxing, what ships put out the most dps, apply it the best, etc. a mach sitting at 50k with emp, fusion, etc doesn't fall into the category of best damage anything.


    Quote

    Hail is superior inside of 25k vs all sigs (~= on frigates) (Stuck with explosive damage). Past 25k this rattler loadout has better damage than machs on BC sigs and larger (@most traversals and ranges the rattler out frigates both NM and Machs). This is reality.

    You don't cut away at 30% tracking of an already slow large cannon to gain 30 or 40 dps. Domination ammo does a wonderful job and keeps all the tracking properties intact.

    EFT says Hail is better, EVE Online disagrees. Just like EFT says that if i fit heavy drones on a ship i get tons more dps, even if reality means lights will do 10x a better job, and EFT is gonna say i just lost, what, 200 dps, dang. Numbers are one thing, the game is quite the other. EFT only gets you so far. Your entire post feels like nothing but theories, cuz all i see you do is theorize, and even then, half of them are wrong.

    P.S.: Again, this reply comes due to the fact that you want to put projectile ships in a chart, and affirm that a rattlesnake is arguably better....no, just...no.


    Dom ammo really? Might as well be firing gold at them (anyone who does fly projectiles and has looked into what faction ammo to use knows this .. btw its like a few [3m] a round). I will admit i tend to avoid faction ammo [extra 130-140k a minute in costs] but republic ammo is usable and provides  better results in mid-high traversal situations then hail (i would use it over Hail, but when making the numerous comparisons i did for this loadout i skipped faction ammo do its cost and availability crossed the board with the exception of crystals {they cheap and easy to transport})

    But Hail is better than t1, and republic is better than hail and t1

    I have addressed the drone issues and  paper vs practice in this thread ... hear ill just quote it for you. "(and that is with medium drones who you admit cannot sit out there up on target 100% of time)", "(Your drone damage just doesn't hardly count anymore)", "More realistically the Nm doesn't factor much drone damage in (frigate killers)", etc. So i am taking into account other factors.

    The problem is this boat has pretty close to 100% drone damage up time UNLIKE THE OTHERS. And ill reiterate some others.

    If looking at paper dps mach and nms are close or even better, however, when accounting for real world application its not there (machs are close with faction ammo medium to low traversals 30-100m/a and under 30k range).
    As i have stated stated in this thread other ships can just walk over to the gate at the end of the mission all quick like (with a ab or mwd). The Rattler has to correctly aim his mjd jumps to be there at the end. If its a short small pocket you lose time as a Rattler.  And the ability to loot while killing makes a mach a better level 4 missioner vs its extra ~1.5b cost. If blitzing a rattler can use drones/sents and mwd to burn the gates and then drones to pop the final target/ mission - its not as fast but its not far off.

    Thanks a ton for your feedback i will modify the hail section to republic ammo. Also by doing this i have found that rigors are probably worth it. they might be unneeded , but it s prob worth it.


    Oh here is Faction ammo mach, t2 rattler w/t1rigors at 100 trans and 110 rad (medium) And with the mach having 100% drone dps up time.


    I know i know its just paper .. so are bridges and buildings made by engineers. But i can tell you this one thing the trans will often be far worst than that, and you will not have anywhere near 100% drone dps uptime. But this is the most favorable, but still plausible, simulation for the mach. Most of the time it will not be close.
  • April 04, 2013, 10:09:33 am

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Getting negative votes from people who don't understand falloff .. sad.
  • April 04, 2013, 04:37:57 pm

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    Getting negative votes from people who don't understand falloff .. sad.
    Meh...Hellgate understands falloff.

    He's just a douche :P
  • April 05, 2013, 02:53:33 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    Because you somehow think that missing doesn't count or something? I figured the only reason could be you think something is helping you land hits in falloff.

    lol. Again, you seem to know as much about projectiles as i do about astrophysics.

    If you don't cross your opt + falloff the only thing thats going to suffer changes are the quality of your hits. You are not going to see 50% misses, its not a literal term. When you do hit the mark, and even cross it, only then will come the sharp decrease in accuracy and you start missing them, altho still very possible to land hits. Smashing hits are barely going to happen, and wrecking hits don't happen in coupled turrets, so i wouldn't know either. But the chance is about 0% at those distances, coupled or not.

    Do you want me to take a screenshot for you or something? ill get an AB and orbit a BS (soemthing that can withstand a few volleys) for you at opt + falloff right there on the edge of it, and you can see how many misses the log records, which will be just about 0. Does that work for you? since you're all into graphics and theories and pictures.

    Seems its you that replied to me quite a few times now, but all with theories and assumptions of how stuff actually works, cuz you never really tried them yourself, you're too busy theorizing (?). Yet you state that i don't know dafuq im talkin about.

    Won't read or respond to the rest of the post, i have polluted this thread enough as is, i will leave you to your charts and calculations.

    Have a good one.
  • April 05, 2013, 07:45:57 am

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    ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    i have polluted this thread enough as is

    Yes you did.....0 misses on coupled guns doesn't mean 0 misses on all guns.

    I don't know about OP but I am using projectiles. They work exactly as advertised. They do 50% dps at opt + falloff. The optimal range/dps occurs at 40% fall-off as the falloff curve is not linear and you still retain 90% of your dps at your optimal + 40% falloff.

    i don't know dafuq im talkin about.

    You got this one right.
  • April 08, 2013, 07:36:38 am

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    Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Hell G. forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    ae
  • April 17, 2013, 10:17:43 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    i have polluted this thread enough as is

    Yes you did.....0 misses on coupled guns doesn't mean 0 misses on all guns.

    I don't know about OP but I am using projectiles. They work exactly as advertised. They do 50% dps at opt + falloff. The optimal range/dps occurs at 40% fall-off as the falloff curve is not linear and you still retain 90% of your dps at your optimal + 40% falloff.

    i don't know dafuq im talkin about.

    You got this one right.

    sup.

    To clarify, since ur not OP but wanted to chat a bit too, here ya have me.

    Quote
    The higher quality hits get discarded as the hit chance gets smaller. That means the average DPS decrease more sharply as hit chance decreases to 50%, and decreases less sharply thereafter (i.e. as a square function, not linearly).

    Source: eve wiki.

    Is that theorycraft enough for you? what is lost is the hit properties, as the hit chance lowers, its BEYOND the effective range that the accuracy suffers far more, as in, alot more misses come along, and your hits will not astray much from what they were before, so you'll get glancing hits, grazes, etc, IF they even connect to any extent.

    Here since im ingame, i just tried something in falloff:

    http://imgur.com/kti2jVK

    I started shooting that ship as it entered my falloff (currently 56km or so, opt+fo), the cannons are coupled yes, but only 2 x 2, as the ship only carries 4.

    As you can see, the log is all scrolled up so we can read the first hits, which are what matters, me shooting in falloff, and not the 41km the screenshot shows when taken. Now count the amount of misses, and the amount of grazes, here i'll do it for you. There is 1 miss, and like 7 grazing hits. Only about 2 connected and "hit".

    To graze: "To scrape or touch something lightly in passing."

    This is also the reason why you don't just sit in EFT to estimate what a vargur or a machariel can do, which was at the core of my discussion with the OP, because these are not missiles, its not as linear, at all.

    So to conclude, what is affected in a projectile based ship fighting in falloff, more than anything, is the hit quality, as grazes, glances, and so on, are not a hit per say. Only pass falloff will the cannons start blatantly missing hits.

    So yea, im ready for your next lesson when you are, professor.
  • April 17, 2013, 10:38:15 am

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    Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    I just saw the screen and you shooting phased plasma at angel rats, that was enough for me.... lol
  • April 17, 2013, 10:44:28 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    I just saw the screen and you shooting phased plasma at angel rats, that was enough for me.... lol

    Cuz i do not bother lookin at the type of ammo it is, its just pve, and simply a L4 at that, they go down quite fast in anycase with the ship thats firing it.

    Same for the omni tank, i could be sitting around looking at damage types to tank, but don't.

    That said, i miss your "expert" point completely.
  • April 17, 2013, 10:59:26 am

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    Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    I just saw the screen and you shooting phased plasma at angel rats, that was enough for me.... lol

    Cuz i do not bother lookin at the type of ammo it is, its just pve, and simply a L4 at that, they go down quite fast in anycase with the ship thats firing it.

    Same for the omni tank, i could be sitting around looking at damage types to tank, but don't.

    That said, i miss your "expert" point completely.

    My expert point is that you suck, and firing wrong ammo at rats only makes your missions last twice as long.
  • April 17, 2013, 11:40:38 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    Yea, truly an expert, i think its 3 times as long really. Your Level 4 mission expertise blows me away. Someone make a statue of ya.

    And after you really do the math, its 4 times as long to do a mission. Takes me hours on end, its woeful. I feel blessed for you coming along with all the knowledge.
  • April 17, 2013, 01:07:02 pm

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    Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    I think this thread needs some more DPS graphs......

    Get crackin!
  • April 17, 2013, 08:28:24 pm

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    I think this thread needs some more DPS graphs......

    Get crackin!


    Really... ok!! :)

    In all reality tho i kinda feel bad for this Trip dude. So you took a single data point of eight shots from 2 grouped double turrets with 50% miss rate for a few secs; then you got the idea that meant anything. And then you came on this forum with all this objective data and argued the earth is flat, you're Jesus, and that obi one kenobi was luke's real father....

    Sorry but you obviously don't understand basic math, i cannot help you or others that might also want to group themselves along with you.

    Yea, truly an expert, i think its 3 times as long really. Your Level 4 mission expertise blows me away. Someone make a statue of ya.

    And after you really do the math, its 4 times as long to do a mission. Takes me hours on end, its woeful. I feel blessed for you coming along with all the knowledge.

    ok.. please don't comment on any loudout you obviously do not care to kill anything fast or effectively.
  • April 17, 2013, 10:25:17 pm

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    ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. ekasim forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Just to sum it up

    Quote from: Triptonik
    Your first falloff gives you a 50% hit chance, which is quite good despite what any chart tells you, its where you WANT to be

    This quoted text is the reason of all these threads. You say this is where you want to be, I say it is not.

    Then you went ahead and made a short test (again with coupled guns) at falloff area, which resulted in 1 miss 7 grazing hits and 2 normal hits....which really sucks.

    So you proved it yourself. You DON'T want to be at opt+falloff. Your DPS will suffer. You want to be closer.

    Thank you for the test as it proved that which was already obvious to all of us.
  • April 18, 2013, 05:37:54 am

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    Tripnotik might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.


    In all reality tho i kinda feel bad for this Trip dude. So you took a single data point of eight shots from 2 grouped double turrets with 50% miss rate for a few secs; then you got the idea that meant anything.

    You can only log so many hits, and it was done right there and then, no sort of preparation, but i have np taking more if you feel like looking at them.

    About the damage, well once you hit level 5 with the skills and have a ship that pumps an extra 100% damage for each cannon, the volley is already too much for most of anything in an L4, reason why i don't even have the 4 cannons grouped and 2x2 instead, as a volley from 4 will often instantly take out your target, and you gotta wait for 2 seconds every time before the group is ready again. So why bother with this or that type of ammo for an L4 is the real question.

    This discussion started because you insisted, thru graphs and theories, that the rattlesnake is arguably the better ship for L4s, its in the title even. I argued that projectile ships are nowhere near as linear, in the game itself, as your graphs and theories make them look. Its also the reason why 100% of the people that ever flown them, will tell you why they're the better choice. And then we discussed...a lot. Then you go on to call me Jesus n whatnot, ok then ^

    Just to sum it up

    Quote from: Triptonik
    Your first falloff gives you a 50% hit chance, which is quite good despite what any chart tells you, its where you WANT to be

    This quoted text is the reason of all these threads. You say this is where you want to be, I say it is not.

    Then you went ahead and made a short test (again with coupled guns) at falloff area, which resulted in 1 miss 7 grazing hits and 2 normal hits....which really sucks.

    So you proved it yourself. You DON'T want to be at opt+falloff. Your DPS will suffer. You want to be closer.

    Thank you for the test as it proved that which was already obvious to all of us.

    You take a quote out of context, to prove, something i guess.

    Your dps suffers if you choose to fight that far off, where am i arguing that it doesn't? its been said like 10 times now. opt+falloff is nevertheless valid for any projectile ship, as you will still hit your target (unlike missiles for example that won't hit beyond stipulated range). First falloff IS where you want to be within, because passed it, even by 1km, the AC is going to be missing shots left and right. Nowhere have you read that its fantastic dps.

    On the other hand, the OP stated that projectile ships need to fight in optimal like other races do, which for ACs is a silly 3.5 4 km, hence the opt+falloff statement you are quoting, because hes wrong, and you never really expect to be within 4km with a projectile Battleship, nor do you worry about it, because they can deploy smashing and wrecking hits far beyond said optimal range.

    Keep writting up your witty insults, and don't make any sort of point whatsoever, seems its what you're good at.
  • April 23, 2013, 06:29:22 pm

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    Lockley has no influence.

    Trying to understand this ship class.   One thing that puzzles me> Some ships of similar type use Painters.
    Would not one painter instead of tracking links? May seem like a noob question but then I am a noob at anything fancier than t1 standard ships.
  • April 24, 2013, 05:36:02 am

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    Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Draconic forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Trying to understand this ship class.   One thing that puzzles me> Some ships of similar type use Painters.
    Would not one painter instead of tracking links? May seem like a noob question but then I am a noob at anything fancier than t1 standard ships.

    Because most part of your DPS comes from your drones.
    Cruise missiles are just an icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Thus you will mostly be shooting them at BS-class sized targets so it is way more preferable to boost your drones instead.
  • April 26, 2013, 12:57:01 am

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    beyersherbst has no influence.

    Running with a mate of mine in a Machariel, so not too concerned about adding DPS but looking at a more tankier variation to err on the safe side. Using your guidelines above for adding more tank, is the following fit viable?

    low slot 0   Drone Damage Amplifier II
    low slot 1   Drone Damage Amplifier II
    low slot 2   Drone Damage Amplifier II
    low slot 3   Drone Damage Amplifier II
    low slot 4   Ballistic Control System II
    low slot 5   Ballistic Control System II
    med slot 0   Kinetic Deflection Field II
    med slot 1   Thermic Dissipation Field II
    med slot 2   Explosive Deflection Field II
    med slot 3   EM Ward Field II
    med slot 4   Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
    med slot 5   Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
    med slot 6   Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
    hi slot 0   Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
    hi slot 1   Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile   
    hi slot 2   Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile   
    hi slot 3   Cruise Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Cruise Missile
    hi slot 4   Drone Link Augmentor II
    hi slot 5   Drone Link Augmentor II
    rig slot 0   Large Ionic Field Projector I
    rig slot 1   Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
    rig slot 2   Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
    drone bay   5x Garde II   
    drone bay   5x Hornet II   
    drone bay   5x Bouncer II   
    drone bay   5x Curator II   
  • April 26, 2013, 05:33:47 am

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    Lockley has no influence.

    Trying to understand this ship class.   One thing that puzzles me> Some ships of similar type use Painters.
    Would not one painter instead of tracking links? May seem like a noob question but then I am a noob at anything fancier than t1 standard ships.

    Because most part of your DPS comes from your drones.
    Cruise missiles are just an icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Thus you will mostly be shooting them at BS-class sized targets so it is way more preferable to boost your drones instead.

    Ok I get that but it is my understanding that target painters affect target size for all targeted objects with out regard to souces of damage input and that adding a third module adds half the increase of the second module.  I know that TP have little meaning when targeting BS but most of the drone activity will be directed at cruisers and below.  What calculation am I missing?
  • April 26, 2013, 06:03:51 am

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    Drones are small already- and Omnidirectional Tracking Links will do more for them than target painters- plus they are passive, you dont have to wait on cycle times.
  • April 28, 2013, 12:05:51 pm

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Running with a mate of mine in a Machariel, so not too concerned about adding DPS but looking at a more tankier variation to err on the safe side. Using your guidelines above for adding more tank, is the following fit viable?

    ...   


    If you are not going to snipe with this ship then and don't mind losing some dps...


    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
    Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I

    Large Shield Extender II
    Thermic Dissipation Field II
    Kinetic Deflection Field II
    Thermic Dissipation Field II
    100MN Microwarpdrive II
    Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
    Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Drone Link Augmentor II
    Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter

    Large Core Defense Field Purger I
    Large Core Defense Field Purger I
    Large Core Defense Field Purger I


    Use lights for close range frigates prob. Juts put your missiles on any bs.

    So this is a passive tank build (which work find solo also btw) it trades like 60+ missiles dps for a large cheap tank and a mwd to keep up with the mach (you don't want to slow boat a rattler, mwd allows you to move to gates / get in range quickly, there is no point in ab as you need to stand still to use sents).
    You can use 2 Drone links for your make targeting range dps of 92+ some or you can just use 1 for 84 (81 with drone ewar4) plus you can strap on a L shield xporter to repair drones underfire, possibly the mach also if hes close also 8.4k range w/e shouldn't be needed.

    If your not gonna use the shield transporter then drop the shield extender for another hardener (its ~500-580 tank either way depending on the rats).

    For an active build your good drop the rigor for another cap (the cap is better if your not sniping). This here cost 850m but its tank is like 750 14m 30s or something

    [Rattlesnake, Rat - active crazy copy 1]
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Drone Damage Amplifier II
    Capacitor Flux Coil II
    Capacitor Flux Coil II

    Pith A-Type Large Shield Booster
    Thermic Dissipation Field II
    Thermic Dissipation Field II
    Kinetic Deflection Field II
    100MN Afterburner II (active tank and cap regen don't go with mwds)
    Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link
    Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link

    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Cruise Missile
    Drone Link Augmentor II
    Drone Link Augmentor II

    Large Capacitor Control Circuit I (or the ionic)
    Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
    Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
  • May 19, 2013, 10:52:20 am

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    Chalel has no influence.

    Thanks for all the research & hard work that went into this post.  Had to register on battleclinic just so I could +1.

    Gave up on EVE a few years back after getting frustrated losing too many Ravens to L4 due to moments of inattentiveness & aggressive NPC EW.  Decided to pick it back up again and try something else besides Raven/missle specialization.

    Been flying a Domi and enjoying the drone-boat gameplay style a lot, but making ISK pretty slow until now--just got enough to afford my 1st Rattler (modified from this fit as I don't have all skills yet and have another 10 days till T2 sentries) but even with T1 sent, I love micro-jumping and watching as swarms of AC/BC melt away before they can range on me.  Popping BS in under 30 seconds is also a new experience for me. :)

    I'm sure there's a Mach & NM in my future since I see now that not trying out new things was my biggest mistake back then.  But now that I'm on the fast track to ISK as I finish skilling up to this proper loadout, other cool BS's are within my reach in the near-term instead of distant future.

    Thanks again!!

    Chalel

    Edit:

    Just ran "Enemies Abound" Pt5 successfully for the 1st time ever.  Always used to spend hours warping in/out trying to pop 1 BS at a time and eventually gave up or lose my Raven.  Now with this Rattler fit I get impatient for the next wave to arrive.
  • May 20, 2013, 09:52:02 am

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    azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. azile0 might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    I like this fit because it is far less expensive for approximately the same performance as the current top-rated level 4 mission runner. I'd take your 850 million ship over his 3.3 billion any day.
  • June 16, 2013, 08:32:54 am

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    jaminbrazil has no influence.

    Thank you for the thoughtfulness. I'm back after 4 years away and running lvl 4s in safe space in a torp Golem. My skills are all in torps...not cruise. I understand the benefits of this ship but lack the skills to run this as intended for about a month. Sadly, I found no recent Rattlesnake torp builds. Would you recommend jumping up to a Rattlesnake once my cruise and drone skills are up to snuff or is it reasonable to do this w/torps + mwd (assuming that even fits)?
  • June 22, 2013, 05:48:30 am

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    latenite might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. latenite might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    Excellent fit.  I enjoy that it is outside the box.  Usually when it comes to missioning you got your big 3: The Mach (Where I came from).  The Vindi (with blasters, yes I know zero damage projection, where I'm at now.)  And the Nightmare, which I guess people use in another part of space, not to be confused with my own.  I have flown all three ships as my main pvp boats, and of the three the Mach takes the cake.  It's ability to effectively project select-able damage as well as move a decent speed, is what sets it apart.

    The idea with this Rattlesnake is brilliant, it too effectively projects select-able damage even further than the Mach.  It's the bonused sentry's that make it brilliant, but it's the sentry's that break it.  Not being able to move ends this ship for me right there.  This is not this fits creators fault and quite honestly, if I lost it all and had to go back, this ship would be selected by me to fill that niche as I rebuilt.  If you're a newer player, this fit will net you results like you will not believe, but better a Mach or Vindi. (I include the Vindi because i'm OK with a one minute wait while I mwd in to drop insane damage on rats, if you don't like that, it must suck to be whomever you are.)
  • June 22, 2013, 09:27:39 am

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    sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. sysape forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    You can move, this, like the Maelstrom drone/arty lvl 4 sniper, works like this; MJD to range on your enemy drop drones and start popping stuff until it gets too close for comfort, then scoop drones MJD to range, rinse, repeat.
  • June 26, 2013, 11:27:46 pm

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    Thor209 has no influence.

    Fitting is pretty nice. Here are my comments: 3 Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Links? Your targeting range must be better than mine. I can only target out to 90km and 2  Omnidirectional Tracking Link ll's are more than enough to handle that range. The fourth DDA does add noticeable dps increase, so good call there. I went a slightly different direction in the mid slots with an active tank of 75K, with a second version pushing hp's to 101k. In the end it depends on your objective. I rat a lot in Blood Raider Forsaken hubs (cosmic anomalies) so my shield resists emphasize EM and Therm. I assume you are using T2 sentries. I find currators more effective for the longer range targets, along with T2 Mjolnir Fury cruise missiles for max punch. With my current skills, I am getting just over 1000 dps. One of these days I will get around to posting my fit.
  • July 01, 2013, 11:25:42 am

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    Cyrus Rune has no influence.

    First off, +1. This fit and the research that went into it are amazing.

    I plan on building one of these tonight.

    But I did have a question, I'm using ships like these to run sleeper sites in a C4 wormhole with fleet that often does not have shield logi.

    Any recommendations for this fit in regards to that? Sleeper sites hit hard, final wave of sites we were running last night with my CNR taking primary was around 8000dmg a volley. Pretty hard on shields.

    Ones we are currently running are 1032dps and 1052dps per reinforcement wave.

    Some of the harder ones are 1920dps.

    If you have any suggestions that would be awesome, and please keep up the excellent work.
  • July 12, 2013, 05:55:44 pm

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Been incursion and pvping of late (flying a nm in incursions and any drone boat in pvp, so thank you for all the people who have kept looking at this thread.

    Thank you for the thoughtfulness. I'm back after 4 years away and running lvl 4s in safe space in a torp Golem. My skills are all in torps...not cruise. I understand the benefits of this ship but lack the skills to run this as intended for about a month. Sadly, I found no recent Rattlesnake torp builds. Would you recommend jumping up to a Rattlesnake once my cruise and drone skills are up to snuff or is it reasonable to do this w/torps + mwd (assuming that even fits)?
    A bit late sorry, but helpful for others maybe? Honestly, a golem is pretty good, the train times are not worth switching (Golems are very nice). But good news while high missile skills defiantly provide higher dps , but like the domi etc they just are not needed as drones do most of the damage. With low drone skills basiclly this isn't the ship for you, your better off with a mjd domi or just with your golem.

    Fitting is pretty nice. Here are my comments: 3 Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Links? Your targeting range must be better than mine. I can only target out to 90km and 2  Omnidirectional Tracking Link ll's are more than enough to handle that range.
    ..
    I rat a lot in Blood Raider Forsaken hubs (cosmic anomalies) so my shield resists emphasize EM and Therm. I assume you are using T2 sentries. I find currators more effective for the longer range targets, along with T2 Mjolnir Fury cruise missiles for max punch. With my current skills, I am getting just over 1000 dps. One of these days I will get around to posting my fit.
    3 Fed omnis because of the rig and the farther you can extend your GARDE II the more damage you have (don't forget the tracking also).
    If you are hubbing more tank is often perfered.
    For long range on omni tanked or em weak rats curators are easily the best(with ok damage, wonderful tracking and good range).

    ...
    But I did have a question, I'm using ships like these to run sleeper sites in a C4 wormhole with fleet that often does not have shield logi. ...

    If you have any suggestions that would be awesome, and please keep up the excellent work.

    Ok so you do have armor logi? A domi or domi NI might be better in armor fleets (extra low slot will help).  If you just don't have logi at all these ships (domi and rattlers)are ideal as they can make cap chains or fit remote reps
  • July 12, 2013, 08:43:49 pm

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Quick post about WH fleets (pve small fleets). Because you kinda just bring what ships you can, its ok to lose 100 dps but have the option of a remote mod and a cap x-fer mod, you'll help out a lot more (unless your logi is solid [still a logi will love someone in fleet that can help them out]).
    When your fleet has 3500+ dps 100 less is not a big deal (ill take it); when you can trade that for greater versatility or safety.
    An issue does arise flying ship most fail to appreciate, people are not good with change. A long while back I flew a rokh in incursions for a while, even tho i could fly a rattler that costs only 100m more and i could have projected damage far better, tanked better, and offered more utility. But its different and people are far less open minded then you would think.
    Saying this talk to the people you play with, see what they are flying (any one using highs for cap/remote reps), see what they are willing to accept.
  • July 13, 2013, 12:05:56 am

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    Hello, I'm new to the game and have something (offtopic) to share. I just don't get artillery. After extensive theory crafting I've concluded that artillery sucks for PVE. Rails have more range and more dps, why the hell I need volley damage for PVE? Damage selection? Only for heavy kinetic+thermal (both) resistance rats. Also projectiles can't effectively cover kinetic damage type with close range (highest dps) navy ammo. So damage selection is not that great.

    So why Mach is considered optimal mission runner? From my purely theoretical point of view it will run missions slower than hybrid turret sniper and people just enjoy high volley and insta popping things.

    Edit: maybe I'm wrong. Mach's bonuses are insane.
  • July 17, 2013, 12:00:37 am

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    Hmm, I need more CPU to fit this
  • July 21, 2013, 03:13:49 am

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    nlght has no influence.

    very nice build, but i have one question: why dont u use sentry drone damage rigs if your main damage come from sentries?
  • July 21, 2013, 06:58:24 am

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    very nice build, but i have one question: why dont u use sentry drone damage rigs if your main damage come from sentries?

    The stacking penalty from damage rigs actually applies in conjunction with the low slot drone damage amplifiers- so the rigs won't give much boost at all
  • August 04, 2013, 06:17:27 pm

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    So I just put this ship build in EFT and it seems there are some differences between the stats on your build and this one. Did the latest version change things that much or am I missing something? I was pretty excited about this build....

    Your original post states :

    ~
    New setup
    251/528 Defence w/ 97,268 HP
    Cap lasts 3m 20s

    ~
    Old setup
    310/495 Defence w/ 97,250 HP
    Cap lasts 4m

    But the EFT is showing:
    131/317
    Cap 2m 53s

    (This is with one extra shield hardener and a CCC instead of warhead Rig)

  • August 30, 2013, 08:02:57 am

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    Hmm, I need more CPU to fit this

    I have the same problem. Is there any way in EFT to see what skills I need to train to make it fit?
  • August 30, 2013, 08:09:23 am

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    Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Benjamin- are those tank numbers with an omni tank? or did you set the resist profile to those specific damage types?
  • September 14, 2013, 04:29:50 am

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    Force Wolfram has no influence.

    I love this fit. It's great for blitzing lvl 4 militia missions. I even used it in small gang PVP with good results. The one I use has meta 4 launchers and a cap booster as once I got into trouble with neuting NPCs. Overall top class loadout. +1
  • September 14, 2013, 02:15:16 pm

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    Jarwa, check your shield upgrades, advanced weapon upgrades, and missile launcher rigging skills to fit. I was missing the rigging skills to make it work
  • September 14, 2013, 02:15:52 pm

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    Jarwa, check your shield upgrades, advanced weapon upgrades, and missile launcher rigging skills to fit. I was missing the rigging skills to make it work
  • September 17, 2013, 02:57:30 am

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    Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Amarath forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    This build has not been updated with the new missle changes its better than ever before however due to them. :)
  • November 01, 2013, 11:06:07 am

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    Katherine Winter has no influence.

    In what alternate dimension does this have anywhere near enough CPU?
  • November 02, 2013, 06:22:11 am

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    dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. dmginc308 forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    ^ I dont have perfect fitting skills but i think it is over like 1% cpu with perfect fitting skills. Needs maybe a faction bcu/hardener to make it fit snugly.

    btw plus 1. this fit has made me tens of billions in anomaly isk
  • December 20, 2013, 08:52:16 am

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    Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    +1 for sure. Was looking over the RS before ever looking on BC.com for a loadout and other pilots opinions. One thing I would like to see in your DPS/range graphs. Maybe the omnis negate it, but if you could chage the angular direction the oncoming ship is flying at. Right now you have it coming directly at the RS with no agular volicty added into the DPS/range graph equation. It would be more realistic to an in-game senario. Might change a few things. Especially with people talking about projectile ammo. (Which I never use and probably never will, unless I get really bored and want something new or they change a lot of things in Eve)

    Other than that great work and I'm glad to see someone else putting the time and effort into this game as it so deserves.
  • December 20, 2013, 09:23:29 am

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    Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    Enemy ships do fly straight at you to close range. The MJD ensures that they always have range to cover.
  • December 21, 2013, 10:21:20 pm

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    Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    ^^^^ You really just said they fly straight at you until close range..... Then why does everything I shoot at when I'm sitting in my domi HAVE an angular volocity of 0.001 or so.... Probably because they are not flying directly at me. Therefor the AV will change as the distance between the two ships changes... You think CCP hasn't thought about this. Saying to themselves, "Well if all the NPC fly straight at them then why do we have tracking speed on our weapons and drones." I say this with all the love in the world, but put up the angular volocity on Overview..... OH and just so you know the DPS graph on EFT doesn't acount for drone tracking speed as far as I can tell.
  • December 22, 2013, 04:36:04 am

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    Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Col Deathstroke forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    ^^^^ You really just said they fly straight at you until close range..... Then why does everything I shoot at when I'm sitting in my domi HAVE an angular volocity of 0.001 or so.... Probably because they are not flying directly at me. Therefor the AV will change as the distance between the two ships changes... You think CCP hasn't thought about this. Saying to themselves, "Well if all the NPC fly straight at them then why do we have tracking speed on our weapons and drones." I say this with all the love in the world, but put up the angular volocity on Overview..... OH and just so you know the DPS graph on EFT doesn't acount for drone tracking speed as far as I can tell.

    Nerd.
  • January 02, 2014, 05:21:26 am

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    Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up. Dzan Azel might just get shoved out an airlock if they keep it up.

    ^^^^ You really just said they fly straight at you until close range..... Then why does everything I shoot at when I'm sitting in my domi HAVE an angular volocity of 0.001 or so.... Probably because they are not flying directly at me. Therefor the AV will change as the distance between the two ships changes... You think CCP hasn't thought about this. Saying to themselves, "Well if all the NPC fly straight at them then why do we have tracking speed on our weapons and drones." I say this with all the love in the world, but put up the angular volocity on Overview..... OH and just so you know the DPS graph on EFT doesn't acount for drone tracking speed as far as I can tell.

    Nerd.

    Yes, and you should know, we nerds get all the best pussy. t(-_-t)
  • January 02, 2014, 05:34:37 am

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    Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    ^^^^ You really just said they fly straight at you until close range..... Then why does everything I shoot at when I'm sitting in my domi HAVE an angular volocity of 0.001 or so.... Probably because they are not flying directly at me. Therefor the AV will change as the distance between the two ships changes... You think CCP hasn't thought about this. Saying to themselves, "Well if all the NPC fly straight at them then why do we have tracking speed on our weapons and drones." I say this with all the love in the world, but put up the angular volocity on Overview..... OH and just so you know the DPS graph on EFT doesn't acount for drone tracking speed as far as I can tell.

    0.001 is essentially straight at you- once the ship has hit its optimal range, it will hang out there and shoot you. Long range guns have low tracking speed because you dont NEED high tracking when the enemy is flying in practically a straight line to get to you. If you really have to manage your angular velocity in PvE that much, you are doing something seriously wrong..... unless you are just practicing for pvp, or trying to fly an asssault frig in level 4s.
  • January 13, 2014, 04:47:54 am

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    The Mad Rapper is breaking through obscurity. The Mad Rapper is breaking through obscurity. The Mad Rapper is breaking through obscurity. The Mad Rapper is breaking through obscurity. The Mad Rapper is breaking through obscurity.

    I like the fit, but you get more DPS with 3 DDA II and 3 BCUs rather than 4/2.
  • May 21, 2014, 07:22:56 am

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    Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Dkeh forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    It is actually higher with 4/2, 1195 vs 1183
  • May 21, 2014, 07:23:47 am

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    Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know. Ghalyen forgot more about gaming than you'll ever know.

    And that's gonna change soon anyways.