Comments

• stogie

  May 11, 2009, 09:53:37 am

  
  

  Commodore

  
  

  Reputation: 0

  

  
  

  

  did you in all that is holy put a mining lazor on there
• Marcus Gideon

  May 11, 2009, 10:07:16 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Did you miss the note at the bottom? =)
  
  Battleclinic doesn't allow adding Civilian guns to Loadouts. So I filled the slot, and added the note at the bottom of the OP.
• viper09

  May 11, 2009, 10:17:23 am

  
  

  Master Chief Petty Officer

  
  

  Reputation: 9

  

  
  

  

  change to faction reppers and fit dual aux anano pumps and u will be fine
• Marcus Gideon

  May 11, 2009, 10:56:49 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Actually... faction reppers would only be better if it were hurting for resources. They perform exactly the same as T2, but with slightly lower requirements. So changing them would not have any effect.
  
  The CCC is in place to keep the tank cap stable. Removing it would cause the whole thing to burn out in about 3-4min.
  
  The EM Pump is there to boost above the base 50%. And although there aren't -too many- sources of EM damage, it still helps out overall.
  
  
  As I said initially, there are better builds for specific situations. But this is tailored to function well regardless of the opposition.
  
  
  I welcome more constructive input though. =)
• Crunchbite36

  May 11, 2009, 07:22:52 pm

  
  

  Rear Admiral

  
  

  Reputation: 495

  

  
  

  

  Quote from: Marcus Gideon on May 11, 2009, 10:56:49 am

  Actually... faction reppers would only be better if it were hurting for resources. They perform exactly the same as T2, but with slightly lower requirements. So changing them would not have any effect.
  
  The CCC is in place to keep the tank cap stable. Removing it would cause the whole thing to burn out in about 3-4min.
  
  The EM Pump is there to boost above the base 50%. And although there aren't -too many- sources of EM damage, it still helps out overall.
  
  
  As I said initially, there are better builds for specific situations. But this is tailored to function well regardless of the opposition.
  
  
  I welcome more constructive input though. =)
  

  amarr navy MAR: activation 180, rep amount is 360. this ship is better doing just serp/guristas missions, and switch to dual nano pumps for rigs.
• Marcus Gideon

  May 12, 2009, 06:10:54 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Ok... so the Amarr Navy/Dark Blood seem to rep more. But they also burn a LOT more cap. Enough that instead of being stable, the tank would burn out in about 6min.
  
  So while it's a great boost to tanked DPS, it won't last long.
  
  It gets stable again if you turn off the AB. But then you're taking more damage since you're not moving as quickly.
• brokenbiscuits

  May 12, 2009, 06:28:51 am

  
  

  Crewman Novice

  
  

  Reputation: 0

  

  
  

  

  Have a bit of a play in eft with 4a single rep, eanm, 3x hardener fit Marcus. vast majority of circumstances it'll give you a better tank, more cap stability & save you the grid/cpu to fit something halfway decent in the highs.
  
  *edit - you can lose the ccc for a nano accel then as well for even more tank.
• Marcus Gideon

  May 12, 2009, 06:51:18 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Actually... that all started looking really good. And I was about to make the changes.
   
  And then I noticed that it really kinda takes a bit away.
   
  The changes would reduce overall tanked DPS, but increase EHP. And while EHP may be nice in PvP, DPS is more of a concern in missions.
   
  So unfortunately, I have to stick with what I have until I find an improvement that doesn't take away so much in trade.
• Marcus Gideon

  May 12, 2009, 07:08:15 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Here we go!
  
  Dual reppers, right? But who's to say they have to be identical modules.
  
  They don't stack, so they don't have to match.
  
  I replaced one of the MAR II with an Dark Blood. They're the same as the Amarr, and seem to be easier to get.
• Kauyon

  May 12, 2009, 09:18:58 am

  
  

  Crewman Recruit

  
  

  Reputation: 0

  

  
  

  

  Depending on your side of the universe, you may also want to look for True Sansha reppers, they are also Meta 9s and are fairly common on the contract circuit. Or atleast I see more of them.
  
  
  The point I'm noticiing on the cap stability with the name gear is distrubing. As I use a dual 'named' MAR, with a Medium Cap Battery II (So I can fit 3 Heavy Electron Blasters), and I am CAP stable with cycling the AB even without CCCs or the Large battery.
  
  The power difference on a Meta 6 or higher repper will only add 1.66 cap/sec to your usage. But the rep difference is incredibly higher. Spend the money, or the time and get two Meta 9 or higher reps. If 1.66 is causing you to be cap instable, then you maybe lacking the Energy Skills, get those two to V before doing level IVs in an ishtar (armor tank). You will want augs in your rig slots, not CCC for missioning. Maybe the ever popular passive shield Ishtar is the boy for cap stability.
  
  With dual named MARs you can sit still and do about any mission you want. Which is what you will find you need the first time you get webb'd in a mission and slowly watch your 150 mil ship deteriate and sit there and wish you had just 50 more rps.
  
• Marcus Gideon

  May 12, 2009, 11:11:31 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  I'm not terribly sure you understand what you're saying. "Named" is often used to refer to modules that are ~Meta 4-7. Modules like the 'Meditation' Medium Armor Repairer I.
  
  "Faction" is used to refer to the modules I'm using, labeled Amarr Navy, Dark Blood or True Sansha. And Faction does perform better in most regards than Named.
  
  Named might have slightly different power requirements, but they also lack the repair effort. In this case, the Meditation has the same repair amount as the Amarr Navy/Dark Blood, but it has a longer cycle time between repairs.
  
  I tried toying with EFT a bit, and it seems a little easier on the Cap if you replace the T2 repper with the Meditation. However, I can almost guarantee that a T2 will be cheaper. Named modules are usually quite pricy, because they require less training to equip. The T2 and the Named are both stable as is, so it would only be trading extra ISK for a little extra orange in the Cap display.
  
  I also tried out the "All Level V" template, and it is stable with 2x Dark Blood... but until I have a few years free to train everything I possibly could up to V... I'll stick with Faction and T2. =)
• MINA123

  May 12, 2009, 11:22:03 am

  
  

  Commander

  
  

  Reputation: 65

  

  
  

  

  people commonly refer to the t1 items as best named before t2
• Marcus Gideon

  May 12, 2009, 11:35:01 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Hurray!
  
  Turns out I only have Energy Management III for some reason. Once I told EFT to bump it up to IV, the dual Dark Blood's were stable. Dark Blood's all around!
  
  *makes note to start training after work*
• SuperNova221

  May 12, 2009, 11:54:43 am

  
  

  Captain

  
  

  Reputation: 330

  

  
  

  

  Should use L5 skills when posting stats, for many it isn't very unrealistic and nobody knows what your skills are so need to import it to EFT to see what it could potentially do. It may seem unrealistic to you buy maybe not for others and it's a nice benchmark as it shows what the ship CAN do.
• Marcus Gideon

  May 12, 2009, 12:04:12 pm

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  When I use All Level V, I make note in the OP.
  
  But there are often too many variable skills that get taken into account when all the math is said and done. That's why I prefer not to use it. I know it would reflect what -could- be built. But some may see a build and think "that'd be awesome", only to be disappointed when they find out they're 2 years away from flying it the same way.
  
  Like I said, "results may vary". And besides... you should always plug a build into EFT to see how YOU would be doing. Otherwise, you buy it, fly it, and watch it pop.
• Kauyon

  May 13, 2009, 05:43:21 am

  
  

  Crewman Recruit

  
  

  Reputation: 0

  

  
  

  

  Yeap,
  
  I'm sorry I used the wrong terminology. Saying 'Named' instead of 'Faction' typing too fast to think I guess.
  
  T1
  'Named'
  T2
  'Faction'
  'Storyline'
  'Deadspace'
  
  That's why I like to use Metas, because there is a big difference between a Gallente Navy Repairer and a True Sansha Repairer. Even though they are both 'Faction.'
  
  You are right, but you saw my question on your skills. That something is definately wrong with your Energy Management and now ALSO I probably think your Energy Systems Operation needs to be checked too. My point is, that you are cap happy if you have the proper skills. So, you really shouldn't need that CCC, it should be another Aux Nano.
  
  Just so you know, I'm not one of your thumbs down.  I don't usually post my loadouts, but I am inspired to share mine now. Let's see how many thumbs down I get.
• Marcus Gideon

  May 13, 2009, 06:09:41 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  En Mgmt is training to IV as we speak. And En Sys Op is already to IV.
  
  I'm sure I'll get them, along with many others, to V before too long. But it's so hard to prioritize where to whittle away and where to devote a week or more.
  
  However, even with the famed "All Level V" template, it's still not stable without the CCC. All I'm looking at permarunning is the Lows and the AB. With all Dark Blood, it's sitting at 46%. When I drop the CCC, it burns out in about 4min.
• Marcus Gideon

  May 14, 2009, 04:37:45 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Ok, redid the Lows a bit after looking around at some other builds. For the most part, the numbers increased. They went down a little vs Explosive, but I don't think it's enough to cripple the ship or anything.
• Kauyon

  May 19, 2009, 02:58:21 pm

  
  

  Crewman Recruit

  
  

  Reputation: 0

  

  
  

  

  I think you got it.
  
  Thumbs up.
• Litus

  May 20, 2009, 08:19:04 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 1st. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 1

  

  
  

  

  this is pretty much the exact setup I run.  I haven't rigged mine as I see no point in doing it (it wouldn't improve anything in my case).  I also run a regula 10MN AB2
  
  if I may recommend something, I'd suggest getting yourself a corelum c-type repper or two as they're more cap efficient and the price isn't too bad (got mine for 55-60 each)...   drop the damage control and the EANM and you'll have 3 spots for hardeners, which is perfect considering the ishtar's resistences
  
  as I mentioned, I haven't rigged mine, because the damage tanked is huge without rigs and it's fully cap stable with corelums/faction hardeners...   honestly an awesome little ship
  
  edit: http://www.battleclinic.com/forum/index.php/topic,45609.0/L4-Cheap-Armour-Ishtar.html
• Marcus Gideon

  May 20, 2009, 10:51:10 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  I'm totally in love with my Ishtar. It's great for L4s.
  
  I'd almost consider trying one in L5s, but I hear they Nos/Neut like crazy, and any sort of active tank is toast.
  
  As I'd mentioned in my OP, I know there are places where this could be improved. Such as replacing the DC and EANM with specific hardeners. Or replacing the rigs with Aux Nano Pumps for more output.
  
  But then you wind up taking a minute to read the mission brief and cross reference the rats to see what to tank against. You have to carry around extra hardeners depending on who you're facing, and it just cuts into your money making time.
  
  Whereas this build is balanced and stable against any rat type. And yet it's not handicapped like a lot of "omnitank" builds wind up being.
  
  
  As for the CCC, without it you may be stable... until you try and tractor/salvage behind the drones mid-mission. Then you'll start burning up your cap unless you have the extra rigged recharge.
• Marcus Gideon

  May 25, 2009, 07:00:49 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Alright... been using this build for L4s.
  
  It works great, but there is a slight annoyance.
  
  The reppers can recover about 40-50% armor damage in a single cycle. But due to the Cruiser size versus BS damage, it gets down that far pretty often.
  
  I'm considering replacing the DCU with a 400mm plate. It only slows AB speed about 7m/s. It reduces the overall DPS tank due to lower resists, but the armor HP spikes from 2023 to 3339.
  
  Any opinions?
• Misaniovent

  May 25, 2009, 07:28:51 am

  
  

  Ensign

  
  

  Reputation: 2

  

  
  

  

  Quote from: Marcus Gideon on May 25, 2009, 07:00:49 am

  Alright... been using this build for L4s.
  
  It works great, but there is a slight annoyance.
  
  The reppers can recover about 40-50% armor damage in a single cycle. But due to the Cruiser size versus BS damage, it gets down that far pretty often.
  
  I'm considering replacing the DCU with a 400mm plate. It only slows AB speed about 7m/s. It reduces the overall DPS tank due to lower resists, but the armor HP spikes from 2023 to 3339.
  
  Any opinions?
  

  
  Definitely keep the damage control, it's giving you way more effective HP.
• Litus

  May 25, 2009, 10:35:28 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 1st. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 1

  

  
  

  

  fit what I fit on mine in the setup I linked...  3 mission hardeners and 2 reppers.  better tank than this so you rarely need to run the second repper at all (tried in many L4s, in most it can handle full aggro with 2 reppers)
• Marcus Gideon

  May 26, 2009, 06:54:32 am

  
  

  Petty Officer 3rd. Class

  
  

  Reputation: 4

  

  
  

  

  Quote from: Litus on May 25, 2009, 10:35:28 am

  fit what I fit on mine in the setup I linked...  3 mission hardeners and 2 reppers.  better tank than this so you rarely need to run the second repper at all (tried in many L4s, in most it can handle full aggro with 2 reppers)
  

  Yep... except you keep missing my OP, particularly the note of "not mission specific".
  
  I realize that it could be made nigh impervious with the right hardeners. But I was looking for a single ship that could take on just about anything, without having to carry around extra modules to switch out depending on the rats.
  
  The choice of modules and rigs displayed reflects the best balance of resistance across the board. It'll withstand assault from any of the various rats you could encounter. My only concern is how much of a beating the armor receives between repper cycles. But as noted above, the DCU does add to the overall EHP, so I'll be sticking to that.
  
  
  Another thing to note... make sure you kill any web frigates first. Turns out the Ishtar doesn't appreciate being under fire while only moving at 24m/s.