Loadout: Manticore with T2 Siege Launchers
Time: May 07, 2009, 07:52:07 am
Build: Apocrypha 1.5 - 20th August 2009
Rating: Up: 12, Down: 1
Views: 5,206
Estimated value: 61,912,298 ISK
Similar loadouts: 1
Build: Apocrypha 1.5 - 20th August 2009
Rating: Up: 12, Down: 1
Views: 5,206
Estimated value: 61,912,298 ISK
Similar loadouts: 1
- Active tank (0)
- Armor tank (0)
- Blockade runner (0)
- Cheap (0)
- Drone boat (0)
- EW Support (0)
- Expensive (0)
- Fleet (0)
- Gang (0)
- Gank (0)
- Gun boat (0)
- Hauler (0)
- Long range (0)
- Mining (0)
- Missile Boat (3)
- Passive tank (0)
- PvE (0)
- PvP (3)
- Recommended (0)
- Scout (0)
- Shield tank (0)
- Short range (0)
- Solo (0)
- Stealth (3)
- Support (0)
- Tackler (0)
I've been playing with different fits in EFT and EVEHQ on the Manticore and quickly realized how difficult it is to find enough CPU in order to squeeze in T2 Siege Launchers. The stats here assume all skills at 5.
According to EVEHQ, using Juggernaut Rage torps and no bombs alone gives you a 5,254.97 volley at 592.22 DPS. Adding Concussion bombs brings the volley to 13,254.97 and 5,820.98 DPS. That's a fair-sized "surprise party" for your local enemy battleship. The two painters help ensure you make a similar impression with his younger cousins: the teen-aged battlecruiser and pint-sized cruiser.
Maximum speed is a blistering 2,019.46 m/s with the MWD burning. A resolution script gives you lock times of about 1-1.5 seconds on anything you'd actually want to hit.
You can swap the Rage torps for Javelins and use a range targeting script instead to extend your range. 140 KM targeting range will allow you to sit at max launcher range (about 91 KM) if desired. With Javs, volley damage becomes 3,694.90 with DPS at 416.40. Obviously, you'd be too far out to use the bomb launcher.
There wasn't enough CPU to include a second BCS in the lows (even if using two T1's), so I figure the Nano is the best useage of the open low slot. It's a rather pricey fit, but it hits hard and fast. Throw a few of these together in a nice cov-ops/black-ops task force and things could be fun.
Thoughts? Feedback?
[EDIT] Swapped the Digital Booster Rockets for Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjets. Also, EVEHQ and EFT seem to get slightly different top-speed values, but both display over 2 km/s.
According to EVEHQ, using Juggernaut Rage torps and no bombs alone gives you a 5,254.97 volley at 592.22 DPS. Adding Concussion bombs brings the volley to 13,254.97 and 5,820.98 DPS. That's a fair-sized "surprise party" for your local enemy battleship. The two painters help ensure you make a similar impression with his younger cousins: the teen-aged battlecruiser and pint-sized cruiser.
Maximum speed is a blistering 2,019.46 m/s with the MWD burning. A resolution script gives you lock times of about 1-1.5 seconds on anything you'd actually want to hit.
You can swap the Rage torps for Javelins and use a range targeting script instead to extend your range. 140 KM targeting range will allow you to sit at max launcher range (about 91 KM) if desired. With Javs, volley damage becomes 3,694.90 with DPS at 416.40. Obviously, you'd be too far out to use the bomb launcher.
There wasn't enough CPU to include a second BCS in the lows (even if using two T1's), so I figure the Nano is the best useage of the open low slot. It's a rather pricey fit, but it hits hard and fast. Throw a few of these together in a nice cov-ops/black-ops task force and things could be fun.
Thoughts? Feedback?
[EDIT] Swapped the Digital Booster Rockets for Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjets. Also, EVEHQ and EFT seem to get slightly different top-speed values, but both display over 2 km/s.
Comments
-
May 07, 2009, 09:04:46 am
Might wanna price check those digital booster rockets. -
May 07, 2009, 09:33:14 am
Might wanna price check those digital booster rockets.
Unfortunately, CPU space is a premium on these ships. Once you select the high's, everything else is a matter of maximizing damage and minimizing CPU. The boosters are the lowest CPU users of all the MWD's. The only other MWD that can fit is a Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thruster. It's also a far lower meta level, however, the only difference I can see is that the Boosters are a bit cheaper on the cap usage.
I must admit, I'm not really looking at the market value quite yet. I don't quite have the skills to fit this. I'm simply throwing fits together to see what skills I'd need to train to maximize these bombers. I've yet to see a fit I really, really like thus far, and it's pretty clear that there is no consensus of a "standard" Manticore fit yet.
Once I settle on a fit, I'll start doing market/availability research on it. However, thanks for the feedback thus far. It's definitely something to keep in mind and I wouldn't have realized that a second MWD could also manage to fit into this loadout. -
May 07, 2009, 09:44:54 am
Alright, then I'll do it for you. They cost as much as officer mods. Don't use them. Ever. -
May 07, 2009, 09:53:14 am
Heh, alrighty. I swapped it out for the Catalyzed Cold-Gas ones. With level 5 skills, there's a spare 1.2 CPU and 1.1 PG. -
May 07, 2009, 09:57:55 am
unless you are veh veh veh rich -
May 08, 2009, 12:30:04 am
I am very excited to try your build it looks to me like it would be quite a blow to any ship with the DPS that is being brought
. I can't wait to try it in action!
Great job
-
May 18, 2009, 03:39:56 am
Ahh finally someone who takes into account the CPU factor now plaguing the Stealth. I like this thumbs up! -
May 18, 2009, 04:21:33 am
I am very excited to try your build it looks to me like it would be quite a blow to any ship with the DPS that is being brought
. I can't wait to try it in action!
Great job
lol and any ship with any decent dps at all will do a decent blow to THIS ship =P -
May 18, 2009, 04:25:51 am
I am very excited to try your build it looks to me like it would be quite a blow to any ship with the DPS that is being brought
. I can't wait to try it in action!
Great job
lol and any ship with any decent dps at all will do a decent blow to THIS ship =P
And? It's a frigate. What do you want? Covert-ops ships in general were never designed to tank. Perhaps you'd like to browse the battleship loadouts instead. Stealth bombers have one role: decloak and hammer a very big something very hard, and then get out of there very fast. Due to the cloak, you get to pick and choose your targets.
Also, if you feel the need to use a sensor dampener or two for defensive purposes (I have a few EFT fits with low-CPU named damps), you'll have to drop the nano for a CPU upgrade. I think the CPU issues is why most of the recent loadouts I've seen use Arbalest launchers instead. -
May 18, 2009, 04:32:54 am
i know they arent. still amusing to see how fragile these things truly are though -
May 18, 2009, 05:40:58 am
Seth, you got me thinking, and just for kicks, I tried to cram a medium shield extender II onto a Manticore in EFT. Sadly, it did not go well. Powergrid instantly becomes a major issue, requiring both low slots and both rigs to be strictly PG upgrades (the lows need at least one Reactor Control II and the second low slot can be a PDS II if desired - all skills to V). In addition, you have to lose the T2 sieges in exchange for Arbalests. This bumps up shields to 1793 and 3,738 effecitve HP total.
[Manticore, Manticore with Shield Extender]
Reactor Control Unit II
Ballistic Control System II
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Juggernaut Torpedo
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Bomb Launcher I, Concussion Bomb
Ancillary Current Router I
Ancillary Current Router I
Using a F-S9 medium extender instead, you can drop the PDS for a BCS II. 3,322 effective HP with a bombless volley of 3573 and 362 dps using T1 torps. Adding the bomb gives you 11573/4362 respectively. So, in order to increase effective HP by about 1800, you drop almost 200 dps (2000 volley damage). In addition, the fitting slows down your max velocity and align time, but that's mostly due to the lack of the nano in the low.
So, I don't really know if it's really worth it to try buffing the tank on a Manticore.
EDIT: In a build like this, you can swap the painter out for another booster or a dampener at will since CPU is no longer a problem with the lack of missile damage upgrades. -
May 18, 2009, 12:34:07 pm
ya you want dps not tanking really. i just enjoy the fact that these things normally have no tank -
May 18, 2009, 12:42:54 pm
*nods* Gotcha.
Anyone have any experience with passive targeters? I'm wondering if they'd be useful to use when involved in a gang/fleet. After everyone else in your gang has engaged, decloak, passively target, and proceed to waste large ship of choice. Or, perhaps when launching on a ship from range. You could have another volley or two already in space before the first volley lands if you rig for range and use javelins....
I've yet to play with them and almost never see them used.
-
May 18, 2009, 01:14:21 pm
unless said person looks on their overview and sees that this little frig sized ship is now flashing red to them maybe.
depends on how alert the person is i suppose. -
May 18, 2009, 07:06:17 pm
the fact that they dont hear a locking sound will be a big plus if they are ratting or something
-
September 03, 2009, 07:29:07 am
Hi there, this looks a fantastic set up - but as a newbie could you explain which skills need to be lvl 5 to use it? cheers! -
September 03, 2009, 08:28:57 am
Well, for starters, if you're trying to figure out what skills to train, EVEMon or EVEHQ will be your best friend. EFT can also tell you what skills are absolutely required in order to use the ship with the modules as fitted. These programs will be a huge help for you when you plan out what skills you want to train and what ships you're hoping to fly.
At the very least, you need to be able to use siege launchers. In addition, you need Cladari Frigates to level 5, Electronic Upgrades to 5 (required for Covert Ops), and Cloaking to 4 (required for the Covert Ops cloaking device which is the only cloak that should be used on covert ops ships).
What all of those tools won't be able to tell you is what fitting skills you needed in order to fit all these mods within the CPU and PG available to the ship. Personally, I have Electronics and Engineering to level 5, Weapon Upgrades to level 5, and Advanced Weapon Upgrades to level 4.
Right now, I'm using a version of this fit that uses T1 named launchers since I can't use the T2 versions yet. However, with the T2 launchers, you'll probably need Missile Rigging to 3 or 4.
And lastly, in order to make your stealth bomber more effective, you will need work on your missile support skills. They're not required to fit the ship, but Missile Bombardment, Missile Projection, Rapid Launch, Target Navigation Prediction, and Warhead Upgrades, along with Torpedo Specialization (needed for the T2 launchers) to 4 or 5 will all improve your missile performance. -
September 03, 2009, 05:20:33 pm
as ive seen from your other posts another excellent answer - if i could give you 2x thumbs up i would! -
September 03, 2009, 08:00:17 pm
:)
Btw, I edited the fit to use small rigs, now that they're available. The price of the fit dropped roughly 30 million according to BattleClinic. -
September 04, 2009, 07:05:58 am
Alright, unless I'm doing something very wrong, even with all skills at level 5, this setup is impossible, even with implants it's looking impossible to load. -
September 04, 2009, 08:06:45 am
My bad. My line of thought on sensor boosters on a bomber has changed and so I mixed up the mids a little bit several days ago. The mods in use now have a higher CPU requirement. So, I had to drop the nano for a co-proc II. Now this will fit without an implant.
If you don't fly in 0.0, then you can drop the bomb launcher and keep the nano. -
September 06, 2009, 05:56:31 am
After the price drop of rigs you might want to consider fitting a 'smokescreen' covert ops cloak, this is obviously hugely expensive (170m) but lets you drop the co-pro for another ballistic control in the low.
Like I said, I know it's pricey but that's the best fit you can get on a manticore. -
September 08, 2009, 04:14:14 am
After the price drop of rigs you might want to consider fitting a 'smokescreen' covert ops cloak, this is obviously hugely expensive (170m) but lets you drop the co-pro for another ballistic control in the low.
That's a terrible idea. For starters, 170 million in total fittings is way too expensive on a ship that gets one-shotted, let alone 170 million in a single mod (which will put you around 250 million total). Secondly, fitting the Smokescreen and dropping the Co-Proc and leaving the low slot empty puts you over on CPU by 3%. You're not fitting two BCU's with actually useful mid slots and T2 launchers.
As a FYI, the Smokescreen will only drop the CPU of your cloak from 50 to 25. A BCU costs 40 to fit.
shame its caldari and i use the anmarr one ^^